Should JSF push Marin Honda as No.1?

[Miller]

For me, watching Marin Honda skating is like walking this way.

When she's on, she is such a joy to watch... Her skating is so fluent, light, her flow out of the jumps so perfectly integrated in the program, landings so soft and elegant, you forgot it's a sporting competition you're following - it all becomes an art. Art of joy and beauty. :luv17:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k7kdW2eJ1Q

You are totally correct. On the senior circuit next season her scores will soar and soar - I can just see the British Eurosport guys drooling over her right now. Of course she has to land her jumps but that's the same for everybody.

Re Wakaba's jumps (later posts), huge jumps = Triple Axel? There is scope for a big jumper who's prepared to go for it to get in the medal mix at next years Olympics. You only have to look at Liza T's scores from 2014-15 to see 225 is possible (SP = 77 at worlds, Europeans LP 141 without 3A), and her PCS was only high 60s.

 

[Mathman]

Or Mao, btw. I am not sure if japanese fed will be giving out spots for sentimental reasons.

Or because they think that one skater will be more marketable than anther.

 

[ioanna]

Two steps at the beginninghttps://youtu.be/8UEIkefKSt8?t=112 are the most graceful preludium to these 30 seconds which get me simply hypnotized. I don't even know what's after, because I start hearing angel voices and falling sakura petals obscure the view.

At this point it's not even about her skating anymore, her admirers in this thread keep bringing up her beauty, beauty, beauty it's honestly a bit errr...

To be honest I don't remember the last time (if ever) I've seen people writing poems and flowery metaphors dedicated to a skater's physical appearance. And she's only 15 years old...

But I guess it's a mirror of the society itself.
"She's pretty so she'll get points thrown at her once she turns senior."
"She's pretty so she can skate cleanly all the time like Medvedeva" - ironically the only other skater who has this "rare" skill of skating clean all the time is JSF's current #1, Satoko. Yeah she URs yeah she doesn't have Marin's beauty to deserve points thrown at her (/sarcasm) but it's a fact that she skates clean and/or always keeps herself in the mix.
In conclusion, "JSF should throw their current, also peasant-looking #1, lay down the red carpet and help Marin climb the stairs to the throne with her peasant-looking maidens Wakaba, Mai, Yuna, Kaori holding her train."

I'm pretty sure everyone in this thread is aware of Marin's qualities and even enjoy her skating. I do too. But some of you are making serious efforts to annoy everyone else until they're tired of "Marin this Marin that". Maybe that's what you're looking for to validate your Marin obsession, get people annoyed until you can accuse them of being #haterz.

 

[noidont]

I've seen Wakaba's jumps live and they are pretty striking. She gets a lot of height upon takeoff but couldn't handle the height and gets lost and confused in the air. I meant too big as in too big for her to handle. It is exactly what used to happen with Gracie and Liza Tuk's Lutz combos. Plus Wakaba lips. Honda doesn't flutz or lip.

Whoever they push though, these Japanese ladies need to milk the code more. They are losing to Eteri's skaters by three tanos and five random transitions per program. New seniors can't get away with not doing these anymore. I feel like I read somewhere that having a program that "tells a story" is a PCS booster? Oh well.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

At this point it's not even about her skating anymore, her admirers in this thread keep bringing up her beauty, beauty, beauty it's honestly a bit errr...

To be honest I don't remember the last time (if ever) I've seen people writing poems and flowery metaphors dedicated to a skater's physical appearance. And she's only 15 years old...

But I guess it's a mirror of the society itself.
"She's pretty so she'll get points thrown at her once she turns senior."
"She's pretty so she can skate cleanly all the time like Medvedeva" - ironically the only other skater who has this "rare" skill of skating clean all the time is JSF's current #1, Satoko. Yeah she URs yeah she doesn't have Marin's beauty to deserve points thrown at her (/sarcasm) but it's a fact that she skates clean and/or always keeps herself in the mix.
In conclusion, "JSF should throw their current, also peasant-looking #1, lay down the red carpet and help Marin climb the stairs to the throne with her peasant-looking maidens Wakaba, Mai, Yuna, Kaori holding her train."

I'm pretty sure everyone in this thread is aware of Marin's qualities and even enjoy her skating. I do too. But some of you are making serious efforts to annoy everyone else until they're tired of "Marin this Marin that". Maybe that's what you're looking for to validate your Marin obsession, get people annoyed until you can accuse them of being #haterz.

Yeah, it's getting really irritating by now... I'm starting to wonder if some of those people are actually trolls trying to make people dislike Marin. That stuff you quoted alone is... creepy
And I'm still not seeing it. I like Marins skating too and think she's very talented, but I don't see her as a stand-out between the Japanese girls at all. They all have strengths and weaknesses, Marin does too.

I've seen Wakaba's jumps live and they are pretty striking. She gets a lot of height upon takeoff but couldn't handle the height and gets lost and confused in the air. I meant too big as in too big for her to handle. It is exactly what used to happen with Gracie and Liza Tuk's Lutz combos. Plus Wakaba lips. Honda doesn't flutz or lip.

Yeah... not seeing it. Sure, when Wakaba doesn't get her jumps right, she might get trouble in the air - like a lean - but generally? Where does this jump look confused?
And true, Marin has secure enough a lutz edge not to get calls... but she also does it without any steps right at the beginning of the LP. And has no 3Lz3T. The advantage of that compared to a clean lutz is relatively minimal (especially in the SP - can Marin do a 3Lz out of steps? If not, she's stuck with an 'inferior' combination with 3F3T compared to Wakaba, Satoko, Rika Kihira, Yuna Shiraiwa,...)

 

[FlattFan]

Lol. Really nice, set up the ground work so they can hate hate hate because someone else likes Marin too much.
Satoko only earned her PCS, her TES is ridiculous. Should have been downgraded for a bunch of jumps. Some people are so worried that if they pump up Marin's PCS, Satoko would be left in the dust.

All the talk about Marin popping jumps left and right, at Nat, she did 3x3 in the SP, popped 1 jump in the LP, but ended up with a 2A-3T and 3Sal-3T both in the bonus round. I mean, for a young girl who can think on her feet and execute 3x3 without a UR doubt, that's impressive. Instead of cheering her on for her ability to add 3T on the fly, haters are tearing her down for being fragile and emotional and popping jump? Get a grip.

 

[ioanna]

Yeah, it's getting really irritating by now... I'm starting to wonder if some of those people are actually trolls trying to make people dislike Marin. That stuff you quoted alone is... creepy
And I'm still not seeing it. I like Marins skating too and think she's very talented, but I don't see her as a stand-out between the Japanese girls at all. They all have strengths and weaknesses, Marin does too.

I really struggle with trying to figure out whether they're trolls or they're actually serious about the choir of angels and falling sakura petals.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

^ I'm actually hoping they're trolls, for the sake of general humanities sanity.

Lol. Really nice, set up the ground work so they can hate hate hate because someone else likes Marin too much.
Satoko only earned her PCS, her TES is ridiculous. Should have been downgraded for a bunch of jumps. Some people are so worried that if they pump up Marin's PCS, Satoko would be left in the dust.

All the talk about Marin popping jumps left and right, at Nat, she did 3x3 in the SP, popped 1 jump in the LP, but ended up with a 2A-3T and 3Sal-3T both in the bonus round. I mean, for a young girl who can think on her feet and execute 3x3 without a UR doubt, that's impressive. Instead of cheering her on for her ability to add 3T on the fly, haters are tearing her down for being fragile and emotional and popping jump? Get a grip.

Except for the fact that nobody here is hating on Marin - some people disagree with the hype and named reasons why. And someone who calls skaters 'peasants' is out of the pointing-fingers-at-haterz game anyway.

And just to annoy you a bit more, that 3S3T was actually really borderline on the 2nd part. Look at it in slo-mo. It's fine that it didn't get any call, but no, Marin is certainly not beyond any doubt or criticism.

 

[ioanna]

If you want to talk about impressive jump combinations how about we start with Yuna Shiraiwa's clean 3Lz-3T and second half 3F-3T combinations. She had the highest TES in the free skate and she didn't have errors. :agree:

 

[FlattFan]

If you want to talk about impressive jump combinations how about we start with Yuna Shiraiwa's clean 3Lz-3T and second half 3F-3T combinations. She had the highest TES in the free skate and she didn't have errors. :agree:

She was impressive with those two combos.
Wakaba was impressive with the two lutztoe combo as well.

Yes, they are good in TES but they don't have the PCS to compete. Wakaba was in the jr circuit twice and failed to win world twice. Even if she's clean, they will just put her in the miki ando box and leave her off the podium.

 

[FlattFan]

One more thing, Marin's landing reminds me of Shizuka's landing. It's so light and effortless. Like Dick Button said, it's as if she's caressing the ice on her landing. It's really impressive to watch.

Satoko - PCS is actually too low for what she does. TES is too generous. I cringe every time I see her jumps getting +2 GOE. I have the same problem with Lip getting big GOE as well and a bunch of people accused me of hating russians. Tiny jumps are just bad. And she's also subjected to the whim of the tech controller on the day of. She cannot control her own destiny with her jumps. A stricter Tech controller will destroy her.
Marin - if pushed correctly, her PCS should be high enough to be in contention. She just have to deliver the jumps. I think the chance of her going clean in both phases are not too low. I mean, outside of Satoko, she's about as consistent as the other girls like Wakaba, Mai, Yuna, Rika. They all make a few mistakes in both phases of the competition.
Wakaba - TES is no problem when she's clean. PCS is another story. She's constantly losing to #3, #4 Jr. Russian girls in PCS. This is a non-starter.
Mai - TES is also no problem. Probably the best jumper of the bunch. A little inconsistent. Low PCS. Can't compete with just TES as everyone is already doing 7 triples 2A in their LP.
Rika - low TES. Should have better PCS but doesn't. Can't help her.

This is why they need to put all the eggs in Marin's basket. Crown her princess and hope she lands her jumps. More likely to be on the podium than Miss Perfect, who needs to pray for a lenient tech panel.

 

[Mathman]

... they will just put her in the miki ando box and leave her off the podium.

I believe that should read, "they will just put her in the two-time world champion Miki Ando box... :yes:

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I believe that should read, "they will just put her in the two-time world champion Miki Ando box... :yes:

What is it with people going like 'well, she's like Miki Ando' to argue against a skater/criticize them? I know her skating isn't everybody's cup of tea (which skaters is though?), but that lady was a powerful skater with great jumps, good speed & presence and she wasn't too shabby a competitor too. And again, subjective, but I think she had some lovely performances, like her 2011 worlds SP, or her 'My way' SP in general...
All of these young japanese talents could be proud to get a career like Miki did.

Oh, but to add to all the comparisons: didn't Midori Ito say Wakaba reminded her of herself? Now if that isn't a huge compliment, I don't know what is!

 

[FlattFan]

I believe that should read, "they will just put her in the two-time world champion Miki Ando box... :yes:

Well, if you put it like that.
I meant at the Olympics. Miki was a world champion who's been skating cleanly the entire year, and then they put her behind the young upstart named Mirai and the medalists. If Laura Lepisto wasn't so messy in the SP, she would place above Miki, too. With only 5 triples, too. I fear something like that will happen to Wakaba.
Yes, Wakaba is a good jumper, no question, but she unfortunately is a Miki Ando type of skater. She can't control her destiny.

 

[gravy]

I believe that should read, "they will just put her in the two-time world champion Miki Ando box... :yes:

Queen Miki.

 

[yuki]

Yes, they are good in TES but they don't have the PCS to compete. Wakaba was in the jr circuit twice and failed to win world twice.

Wakaba is also a two-time Junior National champion and a 3-time Senior National medalist, while Marin is neither.

 

[KweenAsada]

Satoko Miyahara should be pushed as the #1 Japanese lady because she IS the #1 Japanese lady. This thread should have been saved for Mai or Wakaba(whom I adore) IF one of them manages to place above Satoko at Worlds.

Marin is lovely, but let's wait and see. She could pull it all together next season. Then again, so could Mao. We shall see.

 

[Skater Boy]

I have to admit I thought this topic was so well random. I think Miyahara should be left as no. 1. Sadly it is a dog fight or cat fight for two onwards. Only Miyahara has the consistency and overall tech and artistic prowess.

 

[yuzushenko]

lol no we do not need a japanese version of what USFS did to gracie gold

let her earn any potential "score bumps" by letting her learn to be consistent (aka, don't award super high scores for inconsistency because then she'll get used to it like a crutch and become more of a bad mental skater) it'll do bad for her self confidence in the future, let her learn grit now while she's still young
don't coddle her with padded scores, that wont allow her to learn the mental fortitude required for someone to win an olympic gold medal, "it factor" or not.

and did marin even medal at nationals? no

why isn't this thread about wakaba or mai or someone who ranked higher than marin?

if they're going to push anyone over satoko it should be someone who is actually close to beating her

if marin weren't marketable, would this even be a question? no. it's a shame that this sport values vague "it factor" terms (code for conventional attractiveness) than hard work.

 

[Marius]

I think this thread is going a little bit crazy.
Every of the Japanese girls who could have a spot for the team at the Olympic Games has fantastic quality. Every skater has their own qualities, and I think that we can appreciate someone without bashing other skaters. Marin is fantastic, her jumps have effortless landings, her skating skills are amazing and her programs have difficult transitions; Satoko is probably the most artistic skater in the field not only in Japan, but maybe internationally, and has constantly bettered her jumps, her programs have amazing transitions and choreography and she is so gentle on the ice; Wakaba has impressive jumps, very big, and is bettering her PCS: her Sheherazade program this year is a great step above if we see her last year's FS; Mai has a great technique on the jumps, good spins and create great speed with few steps on the ice, and obviously she is bettering on the PCS' part of her programs this year; Rika is a unique skater, wich has programs that adapt to her style and when is on has beautiful interpretation; Kaori has really great jumps, and this year she has been pretty consistent when it counts, she has also great speed on the ice; not to mention Mao, that next year could return back on form and everyone knows her quality: great skating skills, amazing interpretation and athmosphere, step sequences that are to die for, amzing jumping content. I am sure that everyone can appreciate these girl for their different qualities, their hard work and their natural talent
That said, I don't think JSF should push someone to be their #1. Satoko actually is, and deservedly so; next year we will see. JSF should give every skaters her time to fully develop without pushing anyone: the time for Marin could not be 2018 but 2022, we don't know. Let the skaters skate and deserve their results with what their skate. Be calm and enjoy figure skating in every of its form of art