- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
There are skaters who look equally bizarre in their GP getups.
How come....?
- Thread starter Simone
- Start date
Interesting discussions. I understand that FS is less popular than some other sports. But I still think that it's very popular among all the dances in terms of the number of ppl who watch them on TV despite the relatively small number of ppl who actually skate.
Regarding the accessibility and familiarity, I think that there are a lot more kids and adults who learn ballet than FS, for example. But my impression is that more ppl follow figure skating than ballet on TV. Although the FS market may be shrinking, I heard that ballet companies are also having a hard time. Besides, I also heard that Russian dancers are so much less paid than they did before because of the changes in political situations.
Ballet is a lot easier to access than FS for several reasons. First, tradition. FS is relatively new compared to ballet and you are so much more likely to have a grandma who learned ballet than the one who learned FS. It is also relatively less costly. Ballet shoes are so much less expensive than FS boots. You do not have to pay for the ice time, either. It is also so much less expensive to open a ballet studio than an ice rink. Even though both can be a cause of injuries, you fall much less often in ballet.
On the other hand, FS is a lot more TV friendly than ballet because of its excitement as a sport. I think that the element of competition is very important in the media. To me, Prix de Lausanne (a ballet competition) is more exciting than the regular classical/modern ballet performance if I just watch them on TV. Somehow, I would prefer watching an entire performance if I go to a theater and watch the performance in person; but it costs a lot of money so that I can't do that very often. On TV, FS performances allow more casual watching. It takes only less than 5 mins to watch one performance and watching the final result is very exciting.
Although I think more ppl may learn salsa and ball room dancing as well, fewer people watch these on TV.
ETA
Watching men's FPs at SC made me feel that I have kind of come to understand ppl who are allergic to FS costumes even though I generally tend to love typical classical male dancer costumes, either ballet or FS.
Regarding the accessibility and familiarity, I think that there are a lot more kids and adults who learn ballet than FS, for example. But my impression is that more ppl follow figure skating than ballet on TV. Although the FS market may be shrinking, I heard that ballet companies are also having a hard time. Besides, I also heard that Russian dancers are so much less paid than they did before because of the changes in political situations.
Ballet is a lot easier to access than FS for several reasons. First, tradition. FS is relatively new compared to ballet and you are so much more likely to have a grandma who learned ballet than the one who learned FS. It is also relatively less costly. Ballet shoes are so much less expensive than FS boots. You do not have to pay for the ice time, either. It is also so much less expensive to open a ballet studio than an ice rink. Even though both can be a cause of injuries, you fall much less often in ballet.
On the other hand, FS is a lot more TV friendly than ballet because of its excitement as a sport. I think that the element of competition is very important in the media. To me, Prix de Lausanne (a ballet competition) is more exciting than the regular classical/modern ballet performance if I just watch them on TV. Somehow, I would prefer watching an entire performance if I go to a theater and watch the performance in person; but it costs a lot of money so that I can't do that very often. On TV, FS performances allow more casual watching. It takes only less than 5 mins to watch one performance and watching the final result is very exciting.
Although I think more ppl may learn salsa and ball room dancing as well, fewer people watch these on TV.
ETA
Watching men's FPs at SC made me feel that I have kind of come to understand ppl who are allergic to FS costumes even though I generally tend to love typical classical male dancer costumes, either ballet or FS.
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- Jul 26, 2003
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It must be no longer the case, but when I was a child, everyone skated here. You bought a pair of skates at the hardware store and headed out to the local pond. The first ice of the season was very exciting (sometimes in more ways than one). About 10 years later, the town started flooding Washington Park for skating, but we don't have as much outdoor ice as we used to here in CT. People do still skate at the park, though. (It's free 
other than the cost of the skates)
So we'd skate forward and backward and learn to do figure 8's and grapevines and occasionally have a pickup game of shinny (hockey with minimal rules and equipment) or crack the whip. The older kids would dance-a number of us had taken roller skating at the local roller rink and would do those dances but on ice, as best as we could. In fact, my first date with my husband was to go skating.
Skating was perhaps even a bigger deal if you were a girl. There were no organized girl's team sports in my town. None. This was well before Title XI. I could have cared less (but not much) about football. You couldn't participate. And for a a school of over 1000 kids, there were only 7 cheerleaders, and they cheered for all the sports, so you weren't likely to be going to get to cheer either.
other than the cost of the skates)So we'd skate forward and backward and learn to do figure 8's and grapevines and occasionally have a pickup game of shinny (hockey with minimal rules and equipment) or crack the whip. The older kids would dance-a number of us had taken roller skating at the local roller rink and would do those dances but on ice, as best as we could. In fact, my first date with my husband was to go skating.
Skating was perhaps even a bigger deal if you were a girl. There were no organized girl's team sports in my town. None. This was well before Title XI. I could have cared less (but not much) about football. You couldn't participate. And for a a school of over 1000 kids, there were only 7 cheerleaders, and they cheered for all the sports, so you weren't likely to be going to get to cheer either.
People associate skating with makeup, sequins and little girls on TV robotically saying, "I just gotta practice harder." Plus, few people in life actually get to try skating. In alot of places rinks have had to close due to insurance reasons. Here, kids grow up playing football, baseball and basketball.
I get flak for watching Thoroughbred racing. Some can't see what's exciting about watching beautiful horses run around a track once.
I get flak for watching Thoroughbred racing. Some can't see what's exciting about watching beautiful horses run around a track once.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
This Chipeur article fits in quite nicely.
But perhaps this is what people think it takes to make figure skating a real sport, make it clean cut, make it about people who are "easy to get along with", make it about "normal" people. I mean, that's probably it, especially for the men's discipline. It's not normal, it smells and sounds and looks and feels different from football, American rugby, basketball... There is all that classical music, the colourful costumes, the make up, the kiss&cry (which is pretty much unique even diving and gymnastics don't have one, only figure skating and rhythmic gymnastics).
Sometimes I don't think that figure skating is the problem, but that some parts of society seem to be problem. Often I think that attitudes in society need to change and not this beautiful incredible sport.
Please tell me, that I am oversensitive. But this sounds to me just plainly stupid. I just hope that the woman was simply rambling and not thinking about what she was saying. Just play a little game and think of the opposite of everything she said above ("He is a bad role model. He is not easy to get along with. He is a bad boy. He drinks alcohol frequently. He doesn't ride a motorcycle. He kisses boys. He is ugly. He is a bad guy. ...).
But perhaps this is what people think it takes to make figure skating a real sport, make it clean cut, make it about people who are "easy to get along with", make it about "normal" people. I mean, that's probably it, especially for the men's discipline. It's not normal, it smells and sounds and looks and feels different from football, American rugby, basketball... There is all that classical music, the colourful costumes, the make up, the kiss&cry (which is pretty much unique even diving and gymnastics don't have one, only figure skating and rhythmic gymnastics).
Sometimes I don't think that figure skating is the problem, but that some parts of society seem to be problem. Often I think that attitudes in society need to change and not this beautiful incredible sport.
Haha. To me, some male athletes indeed come across as a bit wild, compared to graceful, sensitive male dancers that I've often seen in FS and ballet circles. If Johnny were in a basketball team, what should he do with his beauty and creativity? I am happy that he found a great place for him to shine as a star. There are a lot of men like that in some other sub-cultural circles as well. But I don't think they need to be accepted by the majority in society.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
I don't know if it has already been said earlier in the thread but i think the bottom line with Figure Skating is - either you like it or you don't. You either consider it sport or you don't. Everyone can have an opinion and people rarely will have that opinion changed. It's a little like marmite - you either love it or you hate it!
If you neither like it, nor consider it sport, you never will. No argument will ever wash. Even if you stopped the music, banned costumes other than athletic wear and just had skaters perform elements slouching over with bent legs off of ramps, they still wouldn't like it - afterall they can always watch the X games for all of the above (except the music can and athletic wear part
)
Figure skating is what it is - a, IMO, true blend of art and sport. I don't want it to change in order to try to become more appealing to a set of people who are unlikley to be swayed into liking it.
If you are offended at the thought of *DRAMATIC OVER THE TOP GASP* men wearing sequins, *DRAMA QUEEN BACK OF HAND TO HEAD* men executing their athletic feats to music, then you are not the type of fan that the sport needs. Why should we try to change or butch up figure skating for other people? There are a hundred other sports out there to take part in and watch if you feel the need to be that butch. Figure skating stands more or less alone in its genre and I like that.
Let the people ridicule it, i ridicule every man in my office who loves football (soccer to the majority of you). Who on earth can get excited about a bunch of men kicking a bag of wind around a field into two rectangular holes? What on earth is the point of that? And why are you allowed to be such a big pansy that you cry and hug each other when the results doesn't go your way?
Ant
If you neither like it, nor consider it sport, you never will. No argument will ever wash. Even if you stopped the music, banned costumes other than athletic wear and just had skaters perform elements slouching over with bent legs off of ramps, they still wouldn't like it - afterall they can always watch the X games for all of the above (except the music can and athletic wear part
)Figure skating is what it is - a, IMO, true blend of art and sport. I don't want it to change in order to try to become more appealing to a set of people who are unlikley to be swayed into liking it.
If you are offended at the thought of *DRAMATIC OVER THE TOP GASP* men wearing sequins, *DRAMA QUEEN BACK OF HAND TO HEAD* men executing their athletic feats to music, then you are not the type of fan that the sport needs. Why should we try to change or butch up figure skating for other people? There are a hundred other sports out there to take part in and watch if you feel the need to be that butch. Figure skating stands more or less alone in its genre and I like that.
Let the people ridicule it, i ridicule every man in my office who loves football (soccer to the majority of you). Who on earth can get excited about a bunch of men kicking a bag of wind around a field into two rectangular holes? What on earth is the point of that? And why are you allowed to be such a big pansy that you cry and hug each other when the results doesn't go your way
? Ant
I wonder if male skaters are often ridiculed as they grow up. As a female, I have always gotten positive responses whenever I say I have learned ballet and FS. But I suspect that the opposite may be true for boys/guys.
Boy/guy skaters that I personally know of tended to be admired by girls; but I realize that these girls were skaters themselves, and I actually do not know how their guy friends or other girls at school accepted these boy/guy skaters.
Is it a cool thing for a boy/guy to learn FS? Perhaps not so much in the US, where ideal guys are supposed to be macho, huh? But it may be so in a country like Japan, where femininity in males is more accepted and FS is currently so big. How about in Europe? Russia?
BTW, I feel that there may be less barriers for guys to learn FS than ballet because the latter gives an even more feminine, elegant stereotype whereas you could do more "masculine" things in FS.
I have a male friend from Italy who has absolutely adored ballet. But he was never given a chance to learn ballet as a child because his parents thought it too girlish. Now he is happy to have learned it as an adult but is still regretful that he did not start it as a kid. I have always loved seeing guys do ballet; but it is a shame that there are so few.
Parents, if your boy loves a "feminine" sport/art, please, please let him try it!
Boy/guy skaters that I personally know of tended to be admired by girls; but I realize that these girls were skaters themselves, and I actually do not know how their guy friends or other girls at school accepted these boy/guy skaters.
Is it a cool thing for a boy/guy to learn FS? Perhaps not so much in the US, where ideal guys are supposed to be macho, huh? But it may be so in a country like Japan, where femininity in males is more accepted and FS is currently so big. How about in Europe? Russia?
BTW, I feel that there may be less barriers for guys to learn FS than ballet because the latter gives an even more feminine, elegant stereotype whereas you could do more "masculine" things in FS.
I have a male friend from Italy who has absolutely adored ballet. But he was never given a chance to learn ballet as a child because his parents thought it too girlish. Now he is happy to have learned it as an adult but is still regretful that he did not start it as a kid. I have always loved seeing guys do ballet; but it is a shame that there are so few.
Parents, if your boy loves a "feminine" sport/art, please, please let him try it!
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
He'd be a white Dennis Rodman?
Bennett - here in the US boys get ripped apart growing up if they aren't on the butch type sports teams. My brother started figure skating lessons when he was 10 (after we adopted him, that was the first thing he wanted to do, because before that his biological father - long story - didn't want him to be in it because it'd "make him gay"). He stuck with it for a season but because the 'coaches' in our area weren't into having him learn figure skating but would rather he learn to skate so he could be in hockey my parents didn't see the cost as acceptable. Duane skates for recreation, but none of his friends like the idea of skating if it isn't contact, so he doesn't do much of it these days... and he plays the "I'm not a sissy" card around them and bashes the sport when he's with his friends just so he fits in (which he has trouble doing anyway, so I understand his thought process).
Surprisingly, here in Alaska, figure skating is not popular by ladies either... it's just not a sport you see a lot of. That's what makes Keegan Messing so special in my mind. He's really fought hard to be where he is, he doesn't get a lot of help by the community, and he isn't in an area that he can easily get outside opinions.
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- Joined
- Dec 12, 2007
Figure skating is what it is - a, IMO, true blend of art and sport. I don't want it to change in order to try to become more appealing to a set of people who are unlikley to be swayed into liking it.
If you are offended at the thought of *DRAMATIC OVER THE TOP GASP* men wearing sequins, *DRAMA QUEEN BACK OF HAND TO HEAD* men executing their athletic feats to music, then you are not the type of fan that the sport needs. Why should we try to change or butch up figure skating for other people? There are a hundred other sports out there to take part in and watch if you feel the need to be that butch. Figure skating stands more or less alone in its genre and I like that.
Let the people ridicule it, i ridicule every man in my office who loves football (soccer to the majority of you). Who on earth can get excited about a bunch of men kicking a bag of wind around a field into two rectangular holes? What on earth is the point of that? And why are you allowed to be such a big pansy that you cry and hug each other when the results doesn't go your way
Ant
:agree: Totally agree. You both took the words right out of my mouth.
And another thing is, depending on what country and culture a person is brought up, greatly influences how figure skating is perceived.
For me, I love the fact that figure skating combines sport with art. If all the costumes, music, artistic and theatrical aspects of it were not there, I wouldn't watch it.
It boils down to money and ratings. Football, baseball & basketball can get top
money from (sponsors).They also get the people they want for ratings (men-18- to 48 demographic).
In earlier years, it use to be men and women primarly watch women sports(gymnastics &figure skating). Recently more and more women are paying attention to the football, baseball & basketball. They are even selling jerserys made for women.
Because in earlier years Figure skating was considered more of a women sport -it was considered sissy by the media and because they didn't understand and/or want to follow up on the rules -the media and some men considered it a joke.
money from (sponsors).They also get the people they want for ratings (men-18- to 48 demographic).
In earlier years, it use to be men and women primarly watch women sports(gymnastics &figure skating). Recently more and more women are paying attention to the football, baseball & basketball. They are even selling jerserys made for women.
Because in earlier years Figure skating was considered more of a women sport -it was considered sissy by the media and because they didn't understand and/or want to follow up on the rules -the media and some men considered it a joke.
So true! I've never met any older heterosexual male who scoff at fs. They can perfectly appreciate both baseball and figure skating. Younger generation is laughably rediculous and judgemental when it comes to skating or anything their peers deem "so gay!". Lots of young guys of my age claim they never watch ANTM, even though the show's full of gorgeous women, just because fashion industry is so gay. But do you know how many times I caught them watching project runway? Every time I did, these guys would give a 5min speech on "I'd do Heidi". That doesn't make them any more manly or attractive.
Hot guys flying and spinning on the ice in tight outfit are attractive.
Beautiful ladies gliding in beautiful, sparkly dress that you wouldn't even dream of wearing in real life are attractive.
If beauty is gay, these "straight guys" must be into ugliness.
Sorry, my rant is over. I just find it frustrating that the same people I have fun with at any other sports event and pep rally would readily ridicule another sport.
I cannot help noticing that some guys are afraid of being labelled too gay or too feminine whatever they call it by appearing to care too much about their appearance. Especially in the US, I've noticed such mentality a lot. Whether or not being fashionable does not determine one's sexual orientation though. There are unfashionable homosexual men just as much as fashionable heterosexual men. But I hear from French male friends who always wear perfume and Japanese male friends who are skinny and fashionable that ppl often make an assumption about their sexual orientation. To me, fashion is all about self-expressions and reducing it only to a marker of sexual orientation seems rather a boring way of thinking. It is understandable for my grandparents' generation though, for whom norms about masculinity/femininity were so much more constrained. I totally understand that some ppl do not like flamboyant costumes. But I feel a bit bored when they say so because it appears too gay or something. I mean, it's surely fine for them to think so, but it is just more interesting for me when ppl see these things out of the box.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
I don't know... I know a lot of 'uber straight' guys who are very much into fashion... you'd be surprised (I know a dog musher who refuses to wear anything but designer when he isn't working - he wears prada sunglasses when mushing! seriously!)
Exactly! These guys who secretly watch project runway talk "fashion is gay, fs is gay" bs. I think this is almost exclusively American phenomenon.
I grew up in Manhattan, and I found most people, including my own father and brothers, comfortable with 'metrosexuality'. Now, I go to college in a small town, and I observe all kinds of bias and ignorance everyday. This is not to look down upon coutryside dwellers. I just want to know why..
Well. I like football/basketball/baseball although I tend to watch less of it now than I once did (mainly due to time rather than interest). As far as skating goes, I tend to watch (and follow) only ladies as most long-timers here already know. I see nothing appealing in the other disciplines, especially men's (and I may get some flack for that). But that's just my personal taste. I wouldn't rag on people who DO like it...it's their preference and their choice.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
yes I know what they're called... I just don't get why we have to label them something different....
No, I am not surprised because they are part of my life. But yeah, I am surprised that there is a term like "metrosexual" to specifically describe them.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Although Canada as a whole is a skating nation - most folks love Figure Skating, but Hockey is the no. 1 pass time - especially with the men. I think most men watch figure skating - but would never admit to really liking it as a sport. It's too passive for them - maybe. We have a lot of male skaters like Kurt Browning who take up hockey and then discover figure skating (thank goodness!).
Still Hockey gets the most coverage here as far as sports go. Hey even on the night of the election in the States they announced who won the Presidency during a Hockey game here in Vancouver. - how Canadian is that?
Still Hockey gets the most coverage here as far as sports go. Hey even on the night of the election in the States they announced who won the Presidency during a Hockey game here in Vancouver. - how Canadian is that?
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