Ladies SP - 2014 European Championships

[Sam-Skwantch]

Flatt Fan: These so called "leftovers" as you so kindly refer to them are what's making this season so good. Julia went into Japan and still garnered two standing ovations from a crowd that knew she was one of Mao's biggest threats. Going into Sochi if Yuna or Mao faulter at all. Any of these "leftovers" will be nipping at the heels and quite likely contending for a silver. Everyone knows what fierce competition these "leftovers" can bring and in turn will have to raise their game to compete(unlike US Nationals but that's another thread). This should make the Olympics, and I'll be so bold to say future events too, far better. How this eludes you blows me away. Have you lost the love of this sport. If so than maybe you are right and you should stop watching. I understand certain skaters not being your cup of tea. I personally am indifferent to many of the ladies but to say Julia makes your skin crawl makes me wonder why you ever watch this sport. She is a world class athlete doing amazing world class performances. Not to mention arguably by even her haters standards one of and maybe the fiercest competitor. I bet a lot of the top ladies would back me up on that. I do not enjoy Mao very much but that girl can skate and even though her facial expressions are a bit much for me I would never criticize such a talented and beautiful skater. If you do decide to leave please take the other haters with you and start your own forum. www.figurehaters.net I won't be there to fawn over the "leftovers" I'll be right here watching them grow.

 

[lisa1986]

Carolina was fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!
adelina e julia pcs : Botto:

 

[Slowdive]

Flatt Fan: These so called "leftovers" as you so kindly refer to them are what's making this season so good. Julia went into Japan and still garnered two standing ovations from a crowd that knew she was one of Mao's biggest threats. Going into Sochi if Yuna or Mao faulter at all. Any of these "leftovers" will be nipping at the heels and quite likely contending for a silver. Everyone knows what fierce competition these "leftovers" can bring and in turn will have to raise their game to compete(unlike US Nationals but that's another thread). This should make the Olympics, and I'll be so bold to say future events too, far better. How this eludes you blows me away. Have you lost the love of this sport. If so than maybe you are right and you should stop watching. I understand certain skaters not being your cup of tea. I personally am indifferent to many of the ladies but to say Julia makes your skin crawl makes me wonder why you ever watch this sport. She is a world class athlete doing amazing world class performances. Not to mention arguably by even her haters standards one of and maybe the fiercest competitor. I bet a lot of the top ladies would back me up on that. I do not enjoy Mao very much but that girl can skate and even though her facial expressions drive me up the wall I would never criticize such a talented and beautiful skater. If you do decide to leave please take the other haters with you and start your own forum. www.figurehaters.net I won't be there to fawn over the "leftovers" I'll be right here watching them grow.

:thumbsup:

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I edited my Mao's facial expressions remark out of respect for her and her fans. It's not like she is bad at it. I just am not into emoting thru facial expressions as much as most but that's my cross to bear.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

LADIES SHORT PROGRAM - VIDEOS & RESULTS

1. Adelina SOTNIKOVA (RUS) - 70.73 Short Program
2. Julia LIPNITSKAIA (RUS) - 69.97 Short Program, 2nd Copy
3. Carolina KOSTNER (ITA) - 68.97 Short Program, 2nd copy
4. Alena LEONOVA (RUS) - 64.09 Short Program
5. Mae Berenice MEITE (FRA) - 58.64 Short Program
6. Valentina MARCHEI (ITA) - 57.38 Short Program
7. Elene GEDEVANISHVILI (GEO) - 54.78 Short Program
8. Elena GLEBOVA (EST) - 54.68 Short Program
9. Joshi HELGESSON (SWE) - 54.25 Short Program
10. Nathalie WEINZIERL (GER) - 53.02 Short Prorgram

Thanks again Mao88!!

 

[Gigi13]

Carolina's SP is gorgeous but I was surprise to see both Adelina and Julia beat her but they all did an amazing job and wish them all luck in the free skate!

 

[Nater]

Don't worry, the Russians will prop up her PCS score higher than it should be (i.e. 32+ range) in Sochi, just like Cup of Russia and Nationals.

Yet again, a clean Sotnikova beats a clean Lipnitskaia (and yet again, the vast majority of us aren't surprised and you're, well, the same as ever ).

Julia is consistent. That is her weapon. Her spins are incredible.

But her jumping leaves a lot to be desired. Shoddy 2A technique. Flutz, and a Flip that changes edge half the time. Her jumps are also much smaller.

There's no precedent for scoring Lipnitskaya over Sotnikova in PCS. Sotnikova is faster with deeper and steadier edges. Her Transitions are a lot more varied and thought-out. She has better ice coverage than Julia and tends to generate speed more efficiently. She certainly performs better than Julia, engaging the judges/audience and projecting better.

I'm surprised people actually think this girl could beat Sotnikova when clean...

Look at their protocols... Adelina have +2s mostly for almost all of her elements. Julia gives points away with her dubious jumping. That basically is the difference between her and Adelina at this point.

Moving forward, this can really start to hamper Julia against girls with better technique if they start skating more consistently. The biggest thing Julia has going for her is the fact that she isn't as prone to faltering than some other girls (like Sotnikova, Gold, Li, etc. all have a history of inconsistency). She may have issues maintaining her dominance over the other Russian skaters once more technically pure skaters like Radionova, Proklova, etc. start moving up to the senior ranks, since their PCS is already getting marked decently by the judges and Russia is being very smart about exposing their Juniors to Senior Intl judges as soon as they can which raises their PCS ceiling when they actually debut as Worlds-eligible seniors.

 

[Nater]

Sotnikova has tried a 3Lz3Lo combination a few times... Extremely risky, not worth enough (11.10pts; only 1 point more Base Value than 3Lz3T!) and usually not successful. Every time I saw her set up for that jump, I was already shaking my head...
Who knows, maybe the judges gave her such huge GOEs because they feel the same way and wanted to make sure she got the message that 3T3T will be just fine! (It was, obviously, a greatly executed combo... but still, very generous marks - every single judge gave her +2!)

She has to do the 3Lz-3Lo

Her Layout I think:

3Lz-3Lo
3F
2A-3T
3Lo
3F
3S
2A

2 3Lo
2 3F

She cannot repeat the 3T 3 Times (Zayak Rule - She already has 2 of them, and she already repeats two other triples), and it's better for her to do the 3Lo twice than the 3Lz since she gets an edge call on the Lutz so the Loop (solo jump) with +GOE may actually give her more points. The 3F is not her favorite jump, but she has to do 2 otherwise she's losing points (she would have to replace it with a Salchow or Lutz - the Sal being low value and the Lutz having a built-in deduction that limits her GOE ceiling on the jump).

Additionally, if both the 3T and 3Lo backends are '<' she would still get more points with the 3Lo back-end, so it makes sense to just go for it and stick with the more tactful jump layout, anyways.

She's not going to take out the 2A-3T combo as that is a major point getter for her (Quality is Best-in-Class, so she GOE's well on it).

 

[sky_fly20]

Moving forward, this can really start to hamper Julia against girls with better technique if they start skating more consistently. The biggest thing Julia has going for her is the fact that she isn't as prone to faltering than some other girls (like Sotnikova, Gold, Li, etc. all have a history of inconsistency). She may have issues maintaining her dominance over the other Russian skaters once more technically pure skaters like Radionova, Proklova, etc. start moving up to the senior ranks, since their PCS is already getting marked decently by the judges and Russia is being very smart about exposing their Juniors to Senior Intl judges as soon as they can which raises their PCS ceiling when they actually debut as Worlds-eligible seniors.

but Julia's weaknesses, she has improved them every season, its also telling by the PCS she is getting now compared to last season
her 2A jump has improved no longer just spinning in the air, it gets more height now while she knows her Flutz and Flip are borderline edge issues, her Salchow is her most unstable jump actually

 

[sky_fly20]

She has to do the 3Lz-3Lo

Her Layout I think:

3Lz-3Lo
3F
2A-3T
3Lo
3F
3S
2A

2 3Lo
2 3F

She cannot repeat the 3T 3 Times (Zayak Rule), and it's better for her to do the 3Lo twice than the 3Lz since she gets an edge call on the Lutz so the Loop with +GOE may actually give her more points. The 3F is not her favorite jump, but she has to do 2 otherwise she's losing points.

Additionally, if both the 3T and 3Lo backends are '<' she would still get more points with the 3Lo back-end, so it makes sense to just go for it and stick with the more tactful jump layout, anyways.

She's not going to take out the 2A-3T combo as that is a major point getter for her (Quality is Best-in-Class, so she GOE's well on it).

but her 3F too is also her most unstable jump
her 3Lo is her most reliable so the 3Flz-3lo she might find more doable than a 3Flz-3t which both she under rotates the second jump anyways
and her 2A-3T is her money jump with the huge GOE she gets on it

 

[Nater]

but her 3F too is also her most unstable jump
her 3Lo is her most reliable so the 3Flz-3lo she might find more doable than a 3Flz-3t which both she under rotates the second jump anyways
and her 2A-3T is her money jump with the huge GOE she gets on it

I said:

The 3F is not her favorite jump, but she has to do 2 otherwise she's losing points.

Slowdive's post is childish and it's disgusting that people find it humorous.

Are there moderators on this forum?

 

[FlattFan]

Flatt Fan: These so called "leftovers" as you so kindly refer to them are what's making this season so good. Julia went into Japan and still garnered two standing ovations from a crowd that knew she was one of Mao's biggest threats. Going into Sochi if Yuna or Mao faulter at all. Any of these "leftovers" will be nipping at the heels and quite likely contending for a silver. Everyone knows what fierce competition these "leftovers" can bring and in turn will have to raise their game to compete(unlike US Nationals but that's another thread). This should make the Olympics, and I'll be so bold to say future events too, far better. How this eludes you blows me away. Have you lost the love of this sport. If so than maybe you are right and you should stop watching. I understand certain skaters not being your cup of tea. I personally am indifferent to many of the ladies but to say Julia makes your skin crawl makes me wonder why you ever watch this sport. She is a world class athlete doing amazing world class performances. Not to mention arguably by even her haters standards one of and maybe the fiercest competitor. I bet a lot of the top ladies would back me up on that. I do not enjoy Mao very much but that girl can skate and even though her facial expressions are a bit much for me I would never criticize such a talented and beautiful skater. If you do decide to leave please take the other haters with you and start your own forum. www.figurehaters.net I won't be there to fawn over the "leftovers" I'll be right here watching them grow.

Haha, if I can take the haters with me just like that, I would pile them on you, honey. Maybe you too can grow with the leftovers.

 

[Frenchie]

She has to do the 3Lz-3Lo

Her Layout I think:

3Lz-3Lo
3F
2A-3T
3Lo
3F
3S
2A

2 3Lo
2 3F

She cannot repeat the 3T 3 Times (Zayak Rule - She already has 2 of them, and she already repeats two other triples), and it's better for her to do the 3Lo twice than the 3Lz since she gets an edge call on the Lutz so the Loop (solo jump) with +GOE may actually give her more points. The 3F is not her favorite jump, but she has to do 2 otherwise she's losing points (she would have to replace it with a Salchow or Lutz - the Sal being low value and the Lutz having a built-in deduction that limits her GOE ceiling on the jump).

Additionally, if both the 3T and 3Lo backends are '<' she would still get more points with the 3Lo back-end, so it makes sense to just go for it and stick with the more tactful jump layout, anyways.

She's not going to take out the 2A-3T combo as that is a major point getter for her (Quality is Best-in-Class, so she GOE's well on it).

I meant in the SP.
Sotnikova has sometimes tried to do 3Lz3Lo instead of 3T3T in the SP. That's what I disagreed with, since she usually gets an e call for her Lutz (I forgot to mention that earlier!), and the 3Lo is prone to be < even if she has a very good day.
That's why I said she should stick with 3T3T in the SP.
What she does in the FS is another story.

 

[Gigi13]

I really like Adelina's speed and jumps, she brought a lot of personality and attack, Julia has amazing spins and I like her program as well, and Carolina was beautiful today as well. The jumps were solid but the spins were slow so I guess she lost some points there. Overall the top three ladies did amazing!

 

[Nater]

I meant in the SP.
Sotnikova has sometimes tried to do 3Lz3Lo instead of 3T3T in the SP. That's what I disagreed with, since she usually gets an e call for her Lutz (I forgot to mention that earlier!), and the 3Lo is prone to be < even if she has a very good day.
That's why I said she should stick with 3T3T in the SP.
What she does in the FS is another story.

She hasn't done since multiple competitions ago.

She is not going to do that combination in the SP, if she can score 70+ without it.

Sotnikova is not changing her SP. It's too consistent right now and it's scoring too well to bother. It's not worth discussing what she may or may not do in her SP, cause she isn't going to change anything.

It almost isn't worth talking about the FS, either, since her layout is such that she has very little reason to change anything because she likely won't improve her theoretical BV higher than it already is by doing so.

 

[andyjo24]

How the hell did judges give Julia +2 GOE for her double axel?

 

[seniorita]

I dont understand the different technique, i d really be interested to learn the difference of spinning in the air and the other one Julia was doing, I m talking about Julia's double axel, but the rest of program was gorgeous for a 15 year old girl. I like her consistency a lot, for her age I feel she wont miss a step. Looking forward to seeing the Lp!
I have started to like Adelina's program, she really skates as a young woman, nothing juniorish, I liked the other dress more.

Carolina's program is wonderful, amazing dress too, loved it!
Somehow I want Marcei to medal on Friday, she has had a great season and finally she will go to Olys!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I really like Adelina's speed and jumps, she brought a lot of personality and attack, Julia has amazing spins and I like her program as well, and Carolina was beautiful today as well. The jumps were solid but the spins were slow so I guess she lost some points there. Overall the top three ladies did amazing!

Top 4! Let's not forget about Leonova. She has obviously no shot at making the Russian Olympic team, but I'm so thrilled to see her skating with some consistency again. :agree: I don't think anyone would have expected her to make it to Euros, let alone be 4th after the SP.

 

[Frenchie]

She hasn't done since multiple competitions ago.

She is not going to do that combination in the SP, if she can score 70+ without it.

Sotnikova is not changing her SP. It's too consistent right now and it's scoring too well to bother. It's not worth discussing what she may or may not do in her SP, cause she isn't going to change anything.

Well yeah, I agree that it wasn't worth talking about it since it was obvious that the 3T3T was the better option, but it somehow hadn't gotten through to her or her coaches when she still did the 3Lz3Lo in the SP in both her GP events this season: at Cup of China, and again at Trophée Bompart. So at both her GPs. In November of an Olympic Season.
The only chance the judges had to "tell her that she should rather stick with the 3T3T" by giving it great GOEs, which was my somewhat humorous statement, were the GP Final and Russian Nationals. Not exactly multiple competitions...

 

[gmyers]

How the hell did judges give Julia +2 GOE for her double axel?

She took of going forward did two and a half revolutions in the air and landed very cleanly!