The Judging Controversy Thread

[kwanatic]

Why question her about the marks she was given? SHE didn't give them to herself; the judges did. Is a 17 year old kid supposed sit there and say, "No, even though I skated the best I've ever skated in my life at the Olympics in front of a home crowd, I don't think I deserved to win. I don't want the gold medal, give it to Yu-Na Kim." :sarcasm:

I get that people are upset but this is getting ridiculous. I don't think Adelina deserved gold either but people are being extremely nasty toward her and IT'S NOT HER FAULT. It seems like people aren't getting that. They're picking on her/bad-mouthing her/wishing bad things on her/etc. It's very disturbing to see people going at her like this like she did something wrong. She didn't. Anyone who watches skating knows you never attack the skater if you're upset with the result; the judges are the ones who give out the marks.

 

[goyuna]

wouldnt have been any different when an American skates lights out in the USA
or Kim in Korea, Mao in Japan, they would given a boost by home crowd cheer

Not a figure skater fan at all, but a Yuna fan, but how is your post even remotely correct? I checked and saw that Mao WON in Korea before and Yuna WON in Japan. Yuna has rarely if ever gotten a home court advantage. She has dominated on neutral grounds.

 

[jenaj]

She was incredibly arrogant, acted like she deserved every mark and fully deserved her gold. At the very least I would never in that situation behave that way. I would acknowledge I was helped him home ice, scored generously, and that I understand my win was controversial. So I feel no compassion for her and what she is going to experience the next few weeks. And her arrogant coach is another level entirely (and her coach is no 17 year old but a grown women, and btw given Russian culture a 17 yer old is more than a grown women too, it is different than it is in NA).

I don't agree with her score, but I don't blame Adelina. I wouldn't call her arrogant for being happy she won.

 

[Ophelia]

Officials start chiming in - http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-olympics-adelina-sotnikova-yuna-kim/5680717/

 

[usethis2]

Hah. So a poster who declared not to post in this thread came back? I guess she is a lying piece of c***. Figured, and not surprised by such behavior. There is another memeber with a very, very similar pathological behavior under a different name too. Both of them are way too creepy yet can be extremely persistent so I won't name them - but you know you you are.

Anyhow, so far I've heard and seen the arguments and evidences from both sides, and I have to say there are at least strong reason to believe there were fraud in judging and it does not hurt to investigate. The ISU can indemnify the medalists or whatever, but I do not want this repeated, period. Those who don't want nothing done, would you be happy if this happens again, say, to your favorites? How about in real life, how would you explain something like this to your kids, for example? (if happened to them)

 

[usethis2]

Officials start chiming in - http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-olympics-adelina-sotnikova-yuna-kim/5680717/

According to the article,

There's also a technical panel of three that makes all the crucial decisions about the difficulty levels of a skater's spins and whether jumps are under-rotated or downgraded, among other things, all of which lead to points a skater earns or doesn't. That panel was led by Alexander Lakernik, who also happens to be vice president of the Russian skating federation.

And,

Another member of the technical panel, Finland's Olga Baranova, was seen hugging members of Russia's skating delegation beside the ice immediately after the skaters' flower ceremony.

lolol.

 

[millie]

WHAT A BUNCH OF SORE LOSERS!!!!! For every skaters sake please shut up and get over it. The skaters have gone on with their lives....it seems you are all Olympic wannabes and living your lives through the skaters. Get over it, you are only making it hard on the skaters and their futures. The skaters are not complaining only big mouth Askley Wagner....the very skater that shouldn't have there.p, who never even medaled in her in Nationals. Enough said.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Creepy huh? Sorry I have a favorite skater and support her. Not sure what's creepy about that. I'm fine with an investigation. I'm very open minded and was one of the first to say Yulia's team skate wasn't her best skate and closer to 133-135. I said with Yulia getting that score on what wasn't her best skate if she went clean the judges would be forced to score her 145 or higher. I thought if Yulia went lights out with Schindlers list she could earn a 140 but was scared the judges would go closer to 149 and that would be crazy!! I have always maintained this line of thinking. I just needed to step back and assess, which I'm still doing. I don't know if I'm willing to say yet Yuna should have won because I was underwhelmed by her in the FS. Maybe it's just me..that's fine. Sotnikova could IMO be argued as the winner but I admit....there is something fishy in the air. No need for getting nasty to each other though.


Any thoughts on my post(646) about the ISU judging guidelines for GOE? Anyone?

 

[fahrenheit290]

Hmmm....this just reminds me of Slutskaya in 2002 and Plushenko in 2010. Both were pissed they lost. Both lost fairly...Irina did not turn in a first-place LP, and Plushy's program was lacking and his jumps were sloppy though landed. In both cases, Russians were upset, complaints were filed, reports were written back in the mother land. This time around: revenge of the Russians!!

 

[Mrs. P]

WHAT A BUNCH OF SORE LOSERS!!!!! For every skaters sake please shut up and get over it. The skaters have gone on with their lives....it seems you are all Olympic wannabes and living your lives through the skaters. Get over it, you are only making it hard on the skaters and their futures. The skaters are not complaining only big mouth Askley Wagner....the very skater that shouldn't have there.p, who never even medaled in her in Nationals. Enough said.

There are skaters who are questioning the judging: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/21/s...y-is-hard-to-figure.html?hpw&rref=sports&_r=0

And for the record Ashley Wagner questioned the judging, not the placements. She said she did not dispute the top three placements.

Also, you are not a sore loser if you express disagreement at the judging. Yes, one can be over emotional, but I hope you recognize the nuance that many are presented cool and rational disagreement as well.

Again, I will state my general philosophy that calling people names WILL GET YOU NOWHERE. That goes for both sides of the coin.

 

[chloepoco]

There are skaters who are questioning the judging: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/21/s...y-is-hard-to-figure.html?hpw&rref=sports&_r=0

And for the record Ashley Wagner questioned the judging, not the placements. She said she did not dispute the top three placements.

Also, you are not a sore loser if you express disagreement at the judging. Yes, one can be over emotional, but I hope you recognize the nuance that many are presented cool and rational disagreement as well.

Again, I will state my general philosophy that calling people names WILL GET YOU NOWHERE. That goes for both sides of the coin.

Actually, I think Ashley was questioning her placement as well--I thought I read where she questioned her placement being below someone who fell.

 

[bebevia]

President Chinquanta speaks

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...-skating-controversy-20140221,0,4351893.story

It seems that the ISU has no serious codes of ethics that concern IJS.

- They consider Balkov's cheating "a minor violation", and despite the record, blamed Ukraine for sending him; ISU does not bother to draw line on that, nor do they think they need to.

- Chinquanta recognizes the risk of conflict of interest, but that's okay because Shekhovsteva is a good judge and others are "idiots".

- Lakernik also interviewed, but did not say much.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

@Mrs.P

ITA. Something feels weird about the whole thing that's for certain. I for one need more time to figure out what happened and let my emotions subside before i can make a rational decision. I'm just not sure if Adelina was the winner with inflated judging or BECAUSE of inflated judging. It's looking worse than I thought yesterday I admit fully.

 

[leafygreens]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...-skating-controversy-20140221,0,4351893.story

It seems that the ISU has no serious codes of ethics that concern IJS.

- They consider Balkov's cheating "a minor violation", and despite the record, blamed Ukraine for sending him; ISU does not bother to draw line on that, nor do they think they need to.

- Chinquanta recognizes the risk of conflict of interest, but that's okay because Shekhovsteva is a good judge and others are "idiots".

- Lakernik also interviewed, but did not say much.

- WOW. "Figure skating official: 'I'm not hiding anything' " - except hiding the identity of every judge.

- "Its failure to give explanations for even those parts of the judging that are the most objective... further undermines the sport’s shaky credibility." - Exactly. Why do they always refuse to give us an explanation?

- "“You’re going to be around the `water cooler,’ and everybody is going to have an opinion, and I love it because it will make everyone care about the sport again,’’ he said, laughing." -- Scott Hamilton is laughing about a serious matter that affects his sport's credibility. He is entirely complicit.

- “I can’t suspend a person for life for a minor violation." - A MINOR violation? Isn't this the same violation that got LeGougne banned for life?

 

[lavender]

Officials start chiming in - http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-olympics-adelina-sotnikova-yuna-kim/5680717/

Wow...just wow. I hope something changes.

 

[kwanatic]

The way I see it if Yu-Na and Carolina aren't causing a ruckus and demanding Adelina be stripped of her medal then the fans need to fall in line, swallow it, and move on.

No, Adelina didn't deserve to win. Anyone who has paid attention to skating knows that her PCS were inflated. However, it's over. It's done. It's time to move on. Judging controversy is as common in figure skating as sequins are...it's always there and it's always going to be there. Every single Olympics this happens. This should not have come as a shock to everyone. Yes, Yu-Na got gypped out of a gold medal but she threw down two amazing performances at the Olympics for the second time in her career. Not getting gold doesn't diminish that.

Let it go people.hwell: Just let it go. Be happy that there were so many amazing performances last night and that so many people delivered well. Stop getting hung up on the scores/medals and be grateful for the moments all of these amazing skaters provided us with.

 

[mikiandorocks]

Let it go people.hwell: Just let it go. Be happy that there were so many amazing performances last night and that so many people delivered well. Stop getting hung up on the scores/medals and be grateful for the moments all of these amazing skaters provided us with.

 

[Mrs. P]

Actually, I think Ashley was questioning her placement as well--I thought I read where she questioned her placement being below someone who fell.

I felt that the issue placement came only into context of inconsistent judging. I think if she felt the judging was consistent and fair, she probably wouldn't have fussed at the placement.

 

[Mathman]

I've been saying for months now that the judges are given a loaded gun when applying GOE. Here is the ISU guidelines for evaluating and awarding GOE on Jumps,spins,StepSequence..etc as I understand it.

http://www.usfsa.org/content/2013-14 S&P Establishing GOE.pdf

I've been saying THIS IS THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!! Read the last sentence of the first paragraph!! Each element has 8 bulletpoints to satisfy a +1 +2 or +3 GOE . ISU then makes suggestions as to how many bulletpoints should be hit to satisfy the various levels of positive GOE. It then says this is only a suggestion and its at the judges descretion as to how many bullet points need satisfied to award a positive GOE and to what level. That said its within ISU's own guideline that one bulletpoint alone such as #4 (good height and distance)could be the only bullet satisfied and still get a +3 and not be breaking ISU's guidelines. I've brought this up many times and would love for someone to tell me I'm wrong because it seems unfair and as I've posted before....it's a loaded gun for a narrow mind.

That's not even getting into the subjective nature of the bullets themselves.

IIRC, a couple of years ago when these guidelines were revised to the present language, the intent of the ISU was deliberately to encourage the judges to use a wider range of GOEs. In exchange, the actual values of the GOEs were reduced (to 70% for triple jumps). So the intention was that for a really good jump. go ahead and give +3 GOE if you were really impressed, but that +3 would add only 2.1 points to the total. (There was a bit of controversy at the time of the change -- some people felt that it was directed specifically at Yuna Kim because she got such high GOEs in Vancouver. This way, she could still get +3 GOEs but it wouldn't put her so far ahead.)

Personally, I am not dismayed at the fact that the guidelines are only guidelines. We know going in that the GOEs represent the judges' opinions regarding the quality of the element. However, I think if you asked a judge, what was so great about that jump that you gave it a plus three?, that judge would find it very easy to say that besides the height and distance, it also had good flow throughout, extended landing edge, effortless throughout, matched to the music, etc.

Bottom line, of course, yes, if the judge wants to cheat outright no set of guidelines can prevent it.

 

[Ophelia]

The way I see it if Yu-Na and Carolina aren't causing a ruckus and demanding Adelina be stripped of her medal then the fans need to fall in line, swallow it, and move on.

No, Adelina didn't deserve to win. Anyone who has paid attention to skating knows that her PCS were inflated. However, it's over. It's done. It's time to move on. Judging controversy is as common in figure skating as sequins are...it's always there and it's always going to be there. Every single Olympics this happens. This should not have come as a shock to everyone. Yes, Yu-Na got gypped out of a gold medal but she threw down two amazing performances at the Olympics for the second time in her career. Not getting gold doesn't diminish that.

Let it go people.hwell: Just let it go. Be happy that there were so many amazing performances last night and that so many people delivered well. Stop getting hung up on the scores/medals and be grateful for the moments all of these amazing skaters provided us with.

Is there something wrong to be hung up about BLATANTLY questionable judging bias? I can't get behind an argument that just asks everyone to "forget about it" and to turn a blind eye because what happened, happened.

If Yuna and Carolina are causing a ruckus, people would probably slam them for being poor sports (ala Wagner).