Americans Skating for Other Countries
The United States has produced a steady stream of singles skaters who have competed at Worlds and Olympics, and in a number of occasions, the US has placed more than one skater on the podium. A few examples are:
1960 Olympics – Heiss (gold), Roles (bronze)
1990 Worlds – Trenary (gold), Cook (bronze)
1991 Worlds – US women swept the medals – Yamaguchi/Harding/Kerrigan.
1992 Olympics – Yamaguchi (gold), Kerrigan (bronze)
1998 Olympics – Lipinski (gold), Kwan (silver)
2002 Olympics – Hughes (gold), Kwan (bronze)
2004 Worlds – Cohen (silver), Kwan (bronze)
1952 Olympics – Button (gold), Grogan (bronze)
1956 Olympics – US men swept the medals (H Jenkins/Robertson/D Jenkins)
Single medals won by US men –
1964 Olympics – Allen (bronze)
1968 Olympics – Wood (silver)
1984 Olympics – Hamilton (gold)
1988 Olympics – Boitano (gold)
1992 Olympics – Wylie (silver)
While these wonderful skaters were a blessing, they posed a problem for the rest of the Americans who were vying for team positions. The point I’m trying to make is that there have been a number of very talented American women and men who never had the opportunity to skate at Worlds and/or Olympics because they could not skate past the current crop of top US skaters to make the US team. These 4th, 5th, and 6th place skaters probably could have won the national title of a number of countries (excluding Russia and Japan, of course), or at least medaled in those competitions. In some cases, these skaters took the route of using their dual citizenship to represent their “second” country so that they could compete at the Worlds and/or Olympic Games. I, for one, never faulted them for doing so. They wanted to compete, and they did what they needed to do, within the rules of the game.
One example is Patricia Neske, a Californian holding dual-German citizenship who represented Germany at several World championships. Neske was a competent skater who did not have a realistic chance of outskating the then-top US women (Jill Trenary, Kristi Yamaguchi, Tonya Harding, etc). She finished in the top ten at Worlds, which was a wonderful accomplishment for her.
Diane de Leeuw, another California, chose to represent the Netherlands at Worlds and Olympics in the 1970s. Diane was a very talented skater, who quite frankly, did not need to go this route (or at least it seems) in order to skate in those competitions. She won the 1975 World title over Dorothy Hamill and Christine Errath, and she won the 1976 Olympic silver medal behind Hamill. Perhaps she wanted to compete at Worlds and the Olympics as the National Champion, and she felt that Hamill was “the anointed one” to hold that title in this country.
Alice Sue Clayes, a native of Georgia (US), represented Belgium at Worlds. Alice Sue had won the US Junior title in 1989 but she never came close to winning a medal at nationals at the senior level. Her decision to skate for Belgium seemed to be the right one for her, and even though she did not break into the top ten at Worlds, at least she competed there.
Tonia Kwiakowski shared the ice with Yamaguchi, Kerrigan, Harding, Kwan, Lapinski, and other top US skaters. She competed at Nationals a number of years before she even reached the podium. I remember her victory at the St. Ivel competition back in 1989. She was 18 at the time, young, fresh, and talented. The British commentators remarked that Tonia had finished “only eighth” at US Nationals the previous season and that she would probably win the national title of any of a number of countries. Tonia remained in the USFSA system, but I wondered if she ever had the opportunity to skate for another country. In her case, IMHO, if such a chance existed, she certainly could have taken it. I was so happy for her when she finally did qualify for Worlds.
That's Their Choice But...
Some things transcend sports and representing another country, other than one's own, brings up that issue. If someone chooses to do that, it's their choice of course, but not one I respect. I am of English, Italian and Dutch extraction. I would never represent any of them over America for any reason.
I am of Scottish and English descent, and I would never represent any country except the United States. However, I won't judge those who chose to represent another country. They wanted to compete at Worlds and/or the Olympics, and perhaps that was the only way they could do so.
Originally Posted by kyla2
Galit Chait used to compete with Sevastianov for the US; they made it to 6th at the National level; that same yeat she switched over to Israel and compete in the Worlds for it.
Kristin Fraser is skating with Lukanin for Azerbaijan.
Trifun Zivanovich is from the US, but now represents Serbia & Montenegro.
Todd Sand represented Denmark as a singles skater once upon a time.
Diane Chen represents Taiwan
Nina Bates represents Bosnia and Hertzigovina
Both were born in US. Based on their ISU rankings, I seriously doubt they would be "better off" if Michelle, Sasha, etc were not around. I think these girls would barely crack top 10 in the States. However, by representing their parent's country, they have a chance to compete at least at the qual round of Worlds every year and also in 4CC and Euros, respectively. They may also get a chance to go to a Grand Prix event. What is wrong with that? Also, I think there is a big difference between being of a certain heritage (almost everybody in US is part Irish!) and having one of your parents (or both) being from another country.
Also: wasn't Sydney Vogel skating for Germany at one point?
Finally, Sylvia Fontana was born in US, but represented Italy.
Someone should start a related topic with all the Soviet-trained ice dancing men that skate for other countries (with US being most likely the #1 destination).
Certainly nobody questioned Tanith or Peter when they decided to represent US over their native land.
I say, go Nina and Diane! And Trifun, etc...
Wow, I had no idea! What's his connection to Denmark?
Originally Posted by SingAlto
Originally Posted by STL_Blues_fan
What part of the US are you from? That is really a BIG assumption that you're placing on the land the immigrants (mostly Asians and HIspanics; and some mixed)
Anyway, back to the subject, I'm okay with a skater to skate for their parent's country. I applaud them for trying to keep part of their heritage instead of digging a hole and burying themselves in the American "culture."
sorry 'bout using the wrong word.
Last edited by ritymeez; 08-04-2005 at 01:50 PM.
Tiffany Sfikas represented Great Britain with two partners. Once successfully (I think she competed at both Worlds and Olympics with her first British partner), and the second unsuccessfully. Her second partner (Michael Alred?) and her got into a physical fight, which resulted in her return to the United States.
Tiffany Hyden represented Armenia for a while. Her then-partner, Vajgen Azrojan, and her then switched over to the US, and finished 6th in their first and only US Nats together.
I'm in the minority who likes to see the 'best' man win from wherever he comes from. I'm always happy to see American skaters win, but not if I perceive some other skater is better.
By the way, the list of American skaters who have medalled throughout the years is impressive. What is more impressive, is the fact, that there was no Government System in play to ensure that Americans win. They had to do it on their own.
On another thread it...via a link... it was mentioned that Rohene Ward was to skate for Puerto Rico but something what wrong...I don't know what (and of course, would love to), but couldn't help but feel disappointed as a fan because I would be more likely to see him skate with PR than when he skates for US (and regardless wish him well).
I agree with Joe that it absolutely does not matter at all to me where a skater is from nor which federation/country he/she skates for...i just love watching the skater skate! And in sports, people strategically switch teams all the time with the eye on winning (and yes, making money too)...why shouldn't skaters?
However, I think I disagree with Joe about how impressive it is that skaters (i take it in the US) are more impressive because they 'do it on their own,' i.e. without state support. There's a little something called class priviledge at work in the US....doesn't help all the economically well off top skaters win, nor are all the top skaters from economically elite or well off parents, but it IS a factor. Certainly a more 'individualized' (if that is a word) factor, but it is as real as state support, just works a bit differently.
Originally Posted by ritymeez
That was not meant to be a statement, more of a joke (you know, everybody is Irish on St. Patty's day). I live in upstate NY and, yes - most people here are at least part Irish. If not, then they are part Italian or Polish. When I lived in the Midwest it was almost the same thing (notable exception being African-Americans and first generation immigrants).
You can't be serious about your statement? Mulatto is a very offensive term, biracial would be more proper to use.
The other side of the coin is this. When U.S. athletes skate for other countries, that could knock the real skaters from those counties out of contention to go to international events.
I fixed the word, however that still doesn't fix what you say. The way you said that almost everybody is part Irish is still unsettling to me. The word I used was offensive; well your generalization that almost everybody is Irish is offensive also to the many different races that are situated here. I live in California, so maybe that explains the different view.
Originally Posted by STL_Blues_fan
I guess I could see this as a joke (I think "everybody is Irish on St. Patrick's day" would have been a better comedic aside rather than the former, or "everybody around my place is at least part Irish").
I think the point that St. Louis Blues Fan was making is that everyone in America came from somewhere else, even if their ancestors crossed the land bridge from Siberia 20,000 years ago. That should not automatically give a person the right to skate for the country of his distant ancestry.