Americans Skating for Other Countries | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Americans Skating for Other Countries

mememe

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 20, 2004
Miezekatze said:
I don't know about any troubles they may have had getting there, but Jennifer Goolsbee & Hendryk Schamberger DID compete at the 1994 Olympics and placed a very nice 9th place :) I also liked their program, a Jewish folk music dance.

She later tried to continue her skating career for Germany, after 1995 when Hendryk Schamberger had quit and teamed up with Samuel Gezalian (former partner of Tatiana Navka), but that team didn't really get off the ground, I don't remember what exactly happened in the end. In 1996 they had back luck with illnesses and injuries, and while they did win German Nationals in 1997 (and I have them on tape skating a show together in Germany in the same year I think ), I'm not sure if they ever represented Germany internationally.

Thanks -- I had kept up with her career for a while but lost track. Maybe it was the 1992 Olympics where they didn't make it for some strange reason, or maybe I was just remembering wrong. I did recall a partner change, but didn't realize it came after she made the Olympics.

I just remember at the time wondering if a teenager (I think she was still a teen, or maybe 20 by then) could really understand what it meant to the rest of her life to change citizenship for something that might only last a few years (a competitive and/or professional skating career). I realize people DO change citizenships for jobs and other reasons, but it seemed a huge step to take at the time for a young girl. But again, it was her decision and hopefully it turned out to be worth it to her.

Thanks again for the update on her.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Doggygirl said:
If the USA instead chose to make Figure Skating a widely offered sport in the public school system, more gifted kids for that sport would be identified (with so many more exposed), and also financially supported through the early year school programs, scholarships at the higher ed level, etc.

So I do think government financial support ads leverage / advantage to a sports program. I guess my point is that we DO have government support for some sports in the USA, just like China has government support (in a different form)
for some sports, and other countries other sports.
Just my 2 cents...
That's my point that government financial support adds leverage to a sports program. Not only for the 'hidden' talent that exists, but also for the coaches to become more specialzied in the their fields. It also takes some time for a sports program to become effective and imo, the US is lagging way behind, but it's never too late.

Without a sports program assisted by the government, we will be counting on our 'well off kids' to come up with the talent and money to pay for the best in figure skating. And the question arises - Are they really the best we have?

Joe
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Joesitz said:
That's my point that government financial support adds leverage to a sports program. Not only for the 'hidden' talent that exists, but also for the coaches to become more specialzied in the their fields. It also takes some time for a sports program to become effective and imo, the US is lagging way behind, but it's never too late.

Without a sports program assisted by the government, we will be counting on our 'well off kids' to come up with the talent and money to pay for the best in figure skating. And the question arises - Are they really the best we have?

Joe

ITA with your first point - that government sponsored sports programs add leverage to that sport. The sponsored programs DO find hidden talent, DO find coaches that might otherwise not be found, etc.

In what way are you saying the USA is lagging behind? If it's in FS specifically, then I would agree, since FS is not what I would consider to be a widely Government Supported USA sport.

If we're talking baseball, then I would say that the USA is right up there, and my own nephew is benefiting from the Government Support that the USA provides THAT sport. (and I hope I'm in my nephew's will for all the obvious reasons!! - just kidding)

For non-government sponsored sports in the USA such as figure skating, you are right. These sports do NOT have the same leverage that sponsored sports have, and therefore not as many kids are exposed, and not as many natural talents found.

But isn't that the whole point of your post? What sports do you think the US Government should be supporting that it is not? And if more sponsorship for sports is part of your proposal, how should those additional sports programs be funded?

DG

DG
 

Antilles

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The Duchesneys were an interesting case. He was actually born in France, so I guess he was a citizen there first. Also, they didn't make the move because they couldn't place at Canadians. There were other politics involved. I don't know of anyone else whose situation resembles theirs.

I don't see whay nationality has any importance in the skating world. It's a sport. There's no reason to bring geography and politics into it. I'd rather not see flags or hear national anthems when medals are presented. Maybe de-emphasizing nationalties would help with the internal politics of skating, too.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Doggygirl said:
In what way are you saying the USA is lagging behind? If it's in FS specifically, then I would agree, since FS is not what I would consider to be a widely Government Supported USA sport.
From the thread on how many medals will the US win at the Olys. Dance - 0 Pairs 0 Men - Maybe 1 Ladies - 1. Compare it with countries which have Government sponsorship of fs.

If we're talking baseball, then I would say that the USA is right up there, and my own nephew is benefiting from the Government Support that the USA provides THAT sport. (and I hope I'm in my nephew's will for all the obvious reasons!! - just kidding)
Is it State Government or Federal Government? Athletics is part of the school curiculum and it is not surprising that the State would include costs in its budget.

For non-government sponsored sports in the USA such as figure skating, you are right. These sports do NOT have the same leverage that sponsored sports have, and therefore not as many kids are exposed, and not as many natural talents found.

But isn't that the whole point of your post? What sports do you think the US Government should be supporting that it is not? And if more sponsorship for sports is part of your proposal, how should those additional sports programs be funded?
DG
I'm not saying that the Feds should support Figure Skating. I'm just saying it doesn't, so it is not surprising that countries that do will win more international medals than the US. Of course, there is always the exceptional skater from any country, e.g., Evgeni Plushenko. I think he would win regardless of where he came from. And from Switerland (without government sponsorship) there is Stephane Lambiel who more than likely will win a medal.

Joe
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Joesitz said:
From the thread on how many medals will the US win at the Olys. Dance - 0 Pairs 0 Men - Maybe 1 Ladies - 1. Compare it with countries which have Government sponsorship of fs.


Is it State Government or Federal Government? Athletics is part of the school curiculum and it is not surprising that the State would include costs in its budget.


I'm not saying that the Feds should support Figure Skating. I'm just saying it doesn't, so it is not surprising that countries that do will win more international medals than the US. Of course, there is always the exceptional skater from any country, e.g., Evgeni Plushenko. I think he would win regardless of where he came from. And from Switerland (without government sponsorship) there is Stephane Lambiel who more than likely will win a medal.

Joe

I think we agree on everything. Amazing!! Let me know if we don't...

1) The mainstream USA Government Support System does not support FS.

2) The mainstream USA Government Support System does support other sports.

I'm not saying I personally agree or disagree with what is/not supported. Only that the system is what it is. And it appears you agree?

DG
 

SusanBeth

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Changing nationality in order to skate is something that bothers me. I can't understand trading your country for a medal on a ribbon. My love for my country is far, far more important to me than careers or figure skating. Naturally, people have the right to make that choice. It just strikes me as taking the low road.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
SusanBeth said:
Changing nationality in order to skate is something that bothers me. I can't understand trading your country for a medal on a ribbon. My love for my country is far, far more important to me than careers or figure skating. Naturally, people have the right to make that choice. It just strikes me as taking the low road.
It just doesn't mean the same thing to everybody. Many Russians would say that those who immigrated to the US took the low road by abandoning their country. Also, skating for another country does not mean forsaking your own. I doubt, for example, that Kristain Fraser who skates for Azerbaijan ever considered herself anything other than American.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll weigh in on the government sponsorship issue. While it certainly helps, it's not the only reason USSR has been so successful in sports. The sport attracted far more people because there were so few opportunities. Here, a person can srive for greatness in far more fields than was possible in the Soviet Union. Remember the documentary a few years ago "Hoop Dreams"? Now imagine the same philosophy applied to a whole country.
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
SusanBeth said:
Changing nationality in order to skate is something that bothers me. I can't understand trading your country for a medal on a ribbon. My love for my country is far, far more important to me than careers or figure skating. Naturally, people have the right to make that choice. It just strikes me as taking the low road.

I'm not one of those flag waving Americans, yet somehow the thought of standing under another flag is kind of disturbing. I think it's more of a matter of that I was born and raised in the US, therefore I am American. It's hypocritical to stand under another nation's flag and represent yourself as a member of that nation when you never even grew up there.

I probably got that mentality from my parents. Both of my parents are foreigners who have green cards but no intention of getting American citizenship because in my mother's words, "We aren't Americans."
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
About government sponsorship, I think figure skating is just too expensive to be underwritten as part of school budgets in the U.S. With gasoline at $2.40 a gallon, you can't even keep the Zamboni going.

A sport like basketball, all you need is a gym, which can also double as your general physical education facility and school assembly hall. Even so, at budget crunch time many school districts are making the students pay to participate in school sports.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I think immigrants to the USA come for what they perceive as a better life than living in some sort of ghetto back home. A sneak crossing of the Rio Grande would be an example, and there are other examples.

Others, who studied in America do not want to go back from whence they came because there are more opportunities in the USA - The Brain Drain.

Still others, will use America for business purposes both legal and illegal. The illegal ones have homes all over the world for safe haven.

Of course there are the those who seek Political assylum also.

Lastly, there are those who saved up the necessary money to immigrate because they perceive there is a better life in America.

How many of the above actually want to be absorbed in the American life, I think can only be anwered by the individuals concerned. How many want to retain their previous culture as the dominant culture in their lives is their personal preferences. Some Americans will react to that but the immigrant has that right.

As for figure skaters skating for another country, I just think that is because they want to be an Olympian. If you can't win a medal, you still want to be part of the game. It's something to tell the grandchildren.
 
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tdnuva

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mathman said:
About government sponsorship, I think figure skating is just too expensive to be underwritten as part of school budgets in the U.S. With gasoline at $2.40 a gallon, you can't even keep the Zamboni going.
Ahem. Do you have the faintest idea how much we pay in other countries for gas?? Other things are not cheap either. And most countries don't even have a school system that supports sports in any way.
 

Grgranny

Da' Spellin' Homegirl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I agree, Joe. I always had the idea that since there are other countries they
could skate for, why not. It's only to be in it and get a chance to medal. I sure don't think they're disowning their country, just wanting be in the Olympics.
 
S

SkateFan4Life

Guest
As I wrote previously, I would never represent any other country but the United States, since that is my country by birth, in any sort of athletic competition.
I would never want to see the flag of any other nation raised for anything I did but the flag of my own country, the USA.

That having been said, some of the lesser ranked American figure skaters with dual citizenship have a choice to make. If they believe they can skate at Worlds or the Olympics by skating for their native land - or their parent's native land - that's a choice they have to make. And I will not judge them for it.

That being said, I did find it a bit difficult to understand why Diane de Leeuw represented the Netherlands in the 1970s. She was obviously a top-ranked figure skater, and she won the 1975 World title and the 1976 Olympic silver medal. Perhaps she had tried to compete within the USFSA system and felt she could not reach the top.
 

Grgranny

Da' Spellin' Homegirl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I sure understand your feelings. That would be a disappointment, having someone elses flag and music, if you won. Luckily, I don't have to worry about that. :biggrin:
 
S

SkateFan4Life

Guest
Grgranny said:
I sure understand your feelings. That would be a disappointment, having someone elses flag and music, if you won. Luckily, I don't have to worry about that. :biggrin:

Touche! I, too, will never have that experience. Maybe, however, if I really applied myself to adult competitive skating. Dream on!
 
S

SkateFan4Life

Guest
Antilles said:
The Duchesneys were an interesting case. He was actually born in France, so I guess he was a citizen there first. Also, they didn't make the move because they couldn't place at Canadians. There were other politics involved. I don't know of anyone else whose situation resembles theirs.

Correct. The Dushesnays felt they were stifled and held back by the Canadian Figure Skating Association (Skate Canada), so they moved to France and represented the French Republic.

David Liu was a marvelously artistic skater who, as an American citizen, represented Chinese Taipei at Worlds. Liu's jumping was nowhere in the same league as the top American men, and he would never have qualified for the US team, so his decision to skate for Taipei seemed absolutely logical.
 
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