Keeper of La Khok's Tutus
Impact of "No QR at the Oly's" on singles
Just another stab at an off season topic!!
I'm wondering if anyone can think of particular skaters where the absence of the QR at the Oly's might represent an advantage, a disadvantage, or is it all just a crap shoot?
As an example, Sasha's QR performance at 04 World's seemed to help her overall placement. At 05 World's it didn't seem to matter - she basically held her #2 position throughout.
On the flip side, the QR hurt MK both years where she placed much lower in the QR than than the LP or SP.
It's interesting to look at the skaters. Some maintained a pretty constant position, and others went way up and down. There may be nothing at all to this other than the ice is slippery.
I'm just curious about other opinions. I'm not sure what I think.
If one bases their conclusions on one or two previous competitions then I'm not agreeing that a No QR is a disadvantage.
However, if some GS member wants to dig out the files and check off several Worlds results and come up with a "It appears that...." I may see an advantage.
average opinionated skate fan
I don't know about benefits or detractions of no Q rounds, however it really does bring back the old " you can't win a medal in the short, but you can sure lose one" saying. If anyone misses an element in the short then I think they would have a hard time making up more points in the long, or will cause "plan b" programs that may involve more risks to compensate for sp shortfalls.
It does appear to be a total crap shoot. I started to gather some data. The first thing I noticed is how few skaters there are who appear at the World Championships over and over, to get a reliable data base over several years. Even old standbys like Irina Slutskaya, Evgeni Plushenko and Tim Goebel have missing data due to injuries, etc.
Also, all the information is not readily available at the ISU site. (For some reason 2003 Worlds is not available at the moment.) Plus, with changes in the scoring system, different weights given to qualifying results, etc., it is hard to see any reliable pattern.
For instance, as Shanti suggests , there is always Sandhu to throw a monkey wrench into any general theory. In 2005 he was fifth in his group (so ninth or tenth overall) in the qualifying round, then third overall in the free skate. In 2004 it was the opposite: 1st in qualifying, then dropped to 8th in the LP.
Lambiel was pretty consistent: In 2004 he was 3rd in his group in qualifying, 4th overall in the free. In 2005, first and first.
But then we have Joubert. In 2004 he was second in qualifying, second in the freew. In 2005 he was again second in qualifying, then dropped to 13th.
Weir: 2004, 7th in his group in qualifying, 5th overall in the free. 2005, 4th and 6th.
Li: 2004, 5th (so about 9th or 10th overall) in qualifying, 10th in the free. 2005, 3rd (so about 5th or 6th), and 7th in the free.
About Michelle, I don't think there is anything much to go on. In 2005 she was reportedly suffering from menstrual cramps on the day of qualifying, felt better two days later for the short. Throughout her career she has had contests where she was leading after the short program, but couldn't hold the lead in the long. And also many times (2000 Worlds and 2001 Worlds, for instance) where it was the opposite.
Last edited by Mathman; 08-05-2005 at 05:50 PM.
No QR I think would be beneficial to Jeff. It's not his strong suit. He didn't skate well at the QR at Canadians this year, he was 7th after the QR at worlds this year, in his previous 2 worlds, he was 11th (2002) and 9th (2003) after the QR - it's not his strong suit. So I think it'll help him. And Emanuel - it's easier to not be a basketcase for 2 programs than it is for 3.
Mathman, Don't forget that the QR was not required for the top 5 skaters for several years. MK and Tara didn't have to skate QR every year that they had appeared there.
Also, at one point, the skaters were required to have a different program for QR. I think MK used a preliminary verison of Miraculous Mandarin for her QR and then used it as her LP the following year.
Heyang - Wasn't Miraculous Mandarin used as the third final skate between the two top skaters (MK and IS) in a GP Final? I believe they had to skate a 3rd program, and Michelle used Mirac and Irina did not skate an original program. I think she used her old Carmen.
I thought MK's Mirac was so unusual for her at the time. She flew across the ice with fury, and captured the essence of that Bartok music. I was hoping she would use it again.
I think the QR is both. It is an advantage for the skater who gets the easy group. I think Maria was the champ at getting the easy group as was Cohen. The groups are slated to give that advantage to the one in the easy group. It seems there is 1 skater in group A and all the rest are in group B. Just another inequality in the way its setup. It gives some an advantage and puts others at a disadvantage.
Joe, you could be right about Mirac. I just remember seeing it the 1st time in a competition where they had to perform 2 LP's and 1 SP.
I thought the groups for the QR were based upon placements in the prior World's. Even numbered finishers in 1 group and Odd in the 2nd. Don't quote me, because I'm really not sure.
Frankly, I don't see the point in skating the qualifying round at Worlds, other than using it as a basis for weeding down the very large singles field. I suppose it is difficult for the judges to fairly and impartially (what's that??) rate programs when the field has, say, 45 skaters. The QR eliminates a number of skaters, and the short program reduces the field even further.
For some skaters, the practice and competition schedules, not to mention jetlag, make the Worlds nothing short of an endurance marathon. On the other hand, these are elite athletes who should be expected to be able to skate two clean LPs within a few days.
I, for one, would like to see the QR - if it continues to be used -- changed to a sort of true "compulsory" program in which the skaters are required to perform simple moves in the field, single and double jumps, spins, etc. Leave out the triples and quads, and let's see who can actually SKATE. Clean lines, flow, edges, spirals, etc. Some skaters, like Sandhu, would probably score very high in this type of program, while skaters such as Goebel (with his sub-par posture) would probably score lower.
While the compulsory school figures required years to master, and they weren't exactly a spectator sport, they did provide a means for the skaters to develop great carriage, flow, posture, and straight backs. Dorothy Hamill, John Curray, Jill Trenary, Karen Magnussen, etc - all were strong figures skaters, as well as excellent free skaters, and they were great all-around skaters.
IMHO, some of today's "champions" are really lacking in the carriage, flow, and posture categories. Sure, they can jump up a storm, but figure skating isn't just about jumping eight triples and three quads.