The Bielmann spin: Sasha vs. Irina | Golden Skate

The Bielmann spin: Sasha vs. Irina

attyfan

Custom Title
Medalist
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Judging by the looks of them, I would think that Biellmann spins place a great strain on the back. Does anyone know if those photos were taken before or after Sasha had to withdraw from the GP series this past season due to back injury?
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Sasha has a much better line than Irina. If she does a bielman, it will be better than Irina's, but Irina will do it from different edges in her tricky way. the crowds in Europe will adore Irina. JMO.

Joe
 

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
yoy_mama said:
I think that SC would do the beilman (sp?.. yea I dunno lol) spin better than Irina... dont yall think??
Well looks like it to me.. and I dont think this is a "half one" as u might say:
http://www.sashacohen.com/seventeen.shtml
Go all the way down to the purple outfit one.. (duh, lol)
Compared to: http://www.irina-slutskaya.com/NHK02-Irina-EX58.JPG
Sasha's just does it better.. or is that just me?

Were they count under the new CoP rule? IIRC, the new rule states that a B spin position will count only if the blade is pulled over the head. I don't see it in either picture.

btw, Sasha looks like a doll in those pictures. :agree:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Yo, Yoy! Welcome to Golden Skate.

Irina can get it all the way over her head, but as has been noted, she holds the blade only with one hand, while her other hand holds her wrist farther down. I don't know whether this compromises the true Bielmann position or not.

http://www.interq.or.jp/venus/toshiko/nagano/n-sul/sul1.gif

http://media.canada.com/cp/sports/20050318/s031820a.jpg

Also, it takes her a few ungraceful moments to get her leg up into position.

On the Bielmann spiral, however, Irina can do a full change of edge with complete control over both positions. I think Sasha would have trouble with that. In Sasha's change of edge spirals her second edge is shallow and she doesn't hold it very long.

JMO.

Mathman
 

orchid

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Not wishing to be deemed a Puritan, but anyone who tries these moves would look so much better if wearing tights.

And, I wish all those skaters who are unflexible would not try to emulate such moves.
Must be some reason why Sasha does not perform the Bielmann, back issues?
Likewise, Irina restricts such to this move. I would imagine very straining on the back muscles.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I have several objections to Irina's Biellmann. One is that she doesn't do a full Biellmann---only one hand holds the blade. In truth, the leg isn't quite above her head but only on the same level as her head. Another objection is that she visibly struggles to get into position and this should affect her TRANSITION mark (but of course, it doesn't).
 
S

SkateFan4Life

Guest
chuckm said:
I have several objections to Irina's Biellmann. One is that she doesn't do a full Biellmann---only one hand holds the blade. In truth, the leg isn't quite above her head but only on the same level as her head. Another objection is that she visibly struggles to get into position and this should affect her TRANSITION mark (but of course, it doesn't).

I've noticed Irina's "struggles" as she gets into position to perform the Biellman spin. She's not exactly a picture of grace when she performs this maneuver. Denise Biellman, on the other hand, seemed to float into the move - her leg almost automatically flew over her head into position.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I've always liked Nicole Bobek's myself...

Irina's is more of a painful looking layback... I've always wondered why Sasha the Flexable hasn't put it in her programs
 

jesslily

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
I believe that Sasha can do a very good Bielmann spin if she can hold that position as the picture showed. Basiclly she can spin in any position, except the basic sit spin and back sit spin.
 

yoy_mama

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
http://www.harlick.com/img/gal/ice/deniseb.jpg
This is Denise doing it.. Sasha does it the same to me.. except her head is not back.. Denise's leg might be a little straighter, but maybe we just cant tell because sasha is wearing pants.
The point is, When Irina does it, it is just plain UGLY!! (in my opinion).. and sasha does it better.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
yoy_mama said:
http://www.harlick.com/img/gal/ice/deniseb.jpg
This is Denise doing it.. Sasha does it the same to me.. except her head is not back.. Denise's leg might be a little straighter, but maybe we just cant tell because Sasha is wearing pants.
In the picture of Sasha with the purple pants, she is not really skating. This is a posed picture for a photo shoot, so it's hard to tell how she would look if she were actually spinning.

Has Sasha ever done a Bielmann spin or spiral in competition? About the Bielmann spiral position, IMHO Sasha would be very ill-advised to give up her eye-popping classical arabesque spiral

http://img25.exs.cx/img25/6307/sashacohen2005worldsfsivansekr.jpg :love:

for a wobbly-edged Bielmann -- whatever the CoP has to say about it.

OT, but can Sasha do a back flip? I found this picture on the Michael Weiss web site. If shows Michael's mom teaching Sasha the back flip technique on the COI tour a couple of years ago.

http://www.michaelweiss.org/photos/tour3.gif

Mathman
 
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yelyoh

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I agree about Irina's Bielmann. She struggles like hell to get the leg up there and travels so off center it's downright peripetetic. Her excessive use of this spin may rack up the CoP points but it should hurt her transitions score as someone has already wisely said and her choreography score. As far as Sasha's being on par or better I would think hers would be great as she could really get the leg up above her head with no effort and spin like a top; the girl's a pipe cleaner. Don't try it as a spiral though Sasha.
 

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Irina does not do the Biellman anywhere near as well as Denise, but I doubt any of the other current women, except maybe Sasha if she tried it, would be able to do it better than Irina.
 
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