Idea for The Ice Channel

My letter was returned; the address is no longer valid. I had hoped that since they retained their corporation they would at least leave a light on, but that is evidently not the case.

(I did not send an e-mail because their web site explicitly states that any idea must be accompanied by a signed waiver.)

The channel will happen some day, just not soon. If they can make a channel solely for golf, they can make a channel for anything.

"Broadcasting beautiful views 24 hours a day: you're tuned to...The Scenery Channel." -- Back to the Future, Part II

Well I like watch most of the outdoor winter sports SO why not name it the Winter Sports Channel, minus speed skating even though I do watch it during the Olympics.

Regardless of whether the figure skaters wear "uniforms", "costumes', or paper bags, I would dearly love to see the Ice Channel come into being. Sadly, that simply isn't going to happen, at least not for now. The enormous public interest in figure skating that resulted from the Kerrigan/Harding saga is long past. All of us remember the new quasi-competitions that suddenly appeared, as well as the proliferation of figure skating televisio specials. Ah, those were the good old days!

Remember the "Skates of Gold" telecasts in which decades of Olympic figure skating champions either skated or at least graced us with their presence?

Remember the "Gold Competitions" in which only Olympic gold medalists were in the program? Ah, those were the glory days!

Call me odd but I love figure skating, and I love diving, I also love dance (ballroom and ballet), I like synchronized swimming as well, but I do not like gymnastics. There is nothing particular about the sport that I do not like, It just cannot hold my attention for long lol! But I do think it would add to the station and get more ppl watching so I say go ahead and add them in lol!

First of all costumes and uniforms are two different kinds of dress. Except for figure skating I think all sports' uniforms are standard for the teams. Figure Skating uses costumes; not uniforms and the general public is aware of that.

Back on topic. The general public is not into Figure Skating. I know it is hard to believe but they do not go ga ga over camel spins and split jumps. For most people, once you've seen the elements of figure skating, you've seen them forever.

Having said that, there is a core of figure skating fans who can not get enough of it. But, unfortunately, there are not enough fans in that core to sustain the financing of a cable network devoted to fs.

There is a still smaller core of fans who like the sport only and do not worry about the costumes. Their interest is soley on competitions and who skates the best that night.

A solution for someone like me would be to find some company that would back a Pay Per View showing of the top world wide competitions in figure skating. But how many of you would want to pay $25-$30 per view which for a week of showing would come to $175-$210.

The problem with that proposal would be that, in my opinion, most figure skating fans have interest only in the top tier skaters and would not want to pay for a week of figure skating which would be showing 18 skaters that they have no interest in. Some 'fans' are only interested in the Ladies Division.

I'm very pessimistic about both cable TV and pay per view TV.

Joe

So many facets in a single thread

One poster wrote (in part):

I doubt a skater could get away with wearing the same very basic skating outfit for every competition

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Maybe not currently, but if memory serves me correctly, most of Scott Hamilton's eligible performances were in the very same basic outfit. He kinda "got away" with it. LOL!

Re "What is a sport"... guess it's highly individual. I personally don't see the appeal of Nascar and don't consider it a sport. It's more like a battle of the engineers, wouldn't you say? OK, there's an element of physical prowness on the part of the driver, but it's a bit of a stretch to say that a race car driver is an athlete on the line of a tennis player or a football player, wouldn't you say?

Yet Nascar has millions of fans who consider it a sport. Guess it's a matter of taste.

What distinguishes figure skating, gymnastics, dressage, synchronized swimming, ballroom dancing, etc. is that there is, indeed, an element of subjective judging. Now, I know a bit about the training for a dressage judge. They are instructed in great detail that a movement performed with such and such criteria deserves a specific mark. I believe that figure skating is also moving toward very narrow criteria under which the subjective marks are rewarded.

But when you look at the performance of a skater like Li versus a skater like Plushenko, you can clearly see that subjective - as in the personal taste of the judge - is alive and well. There are probably pages and pages of criteria in the rule book under which a judge can defend a higher mark for one skater than for another, but the bottom line is, the judges "liked" Plushy better than Li.

I, personally, gravitate towards "sports" (I don't care if you want to call them sports, performances or stuff) that has an element of subjectivity. It's cool to see athletes reach the peak of human possibility by running faster or jumping higher than any human has ever before... but records are only shattered now and then. Other than that, I don't find it terribly interesting. As much as I love horses, I'd rather watch dressage than racing any day of the week.

And I can't help thinking that I'm not odd in my thinking. Perhaps it is the appeal of fine nuance? But I'd bet there enough people who prefer subjective competitions to float a sports channel devoted to them.

Linny

What's the point of discussing rather Figure skating is a sport or not? Hello! ESPN shows poker and spelling bees. But for this thread's purpose I looked the word sport up. Sport: An active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition.

Skaters could skate with uniformed outfits. Gymnast do it all the time. Figure skating has rules for their costumes but they choose to allow the individual skaters to make the decision on specifics. It's not like we're taking about a team sport but most skating outfits are similar in nature.

I love figure skating, gymnastics, synchronized swimming, ballroom dancing, diving, equestrian sport and cheerleading. If cable can handle 3 major news channels it should be able to host an Artistic sport channel. It sicken's me that I can watch people have sex any time I want but can't watch beautiful sport.

Well, as long as we're talking about what is and is not sport....

My definition of sport probably differs from the dictionary. I consider anything to be a sport if, in order to win, a participant bests his or her opponent in a fair physical contest that does not involve the intention of harm. So in my book, almost everything called a "sport" really is a sport: car racing; golf; gymnastics; horseshoes; etc. But not boxing; I don't consider boxing a sport, because in boxing, each opponent enters the ring with the explicit intention of causing physical harm to the other, and that crosses the line from sport to organized violence.

People knock each other down in football; they hit each other in hockey; they kick each other in Tae-Kwon-Do; they throw each other to the ground in wrestling. But in these sports, at no time is it acceptable to do something with the intention of actually bringing harm to your opponent (at least in the rules; I know hockey really skims that line a lot, which is one reason I'm not wild about hockey).

I know people will say, "But it takes incredible skill to box well!" Yes, it does. It takes incredible skill to do anything well. It takes incredible skill to run a successful business, or to write a really great book, or to be a soldier. That doesn't make these occupations sports, and it doesn't make boxing a sport, either.

And here's one more way to look at it: If someone introduced any other organized violence into the world today and tried to call it a sport -- say, for example, "Razor-blade roller derby" -- it would be universally decried and rightfully called barbaric. Boxing is acceptable because it's been around for so long.

I want to make this clear: I have nothing against boxing. If people want to climb into a ring and punch each other, God bless 'em. I have a problem with boxing being called a sport.

(BTW, I may have to re-think my definition. If I consider archery and horseshoes to be sports because they involve besting one's opponent with physical skill -- in this case, the ability to aim well -- does that mean Tiddlywinks is a sport? By my definition, it is! I'm not sure what to do about that. But then, some people consider darts to be a sport, so maybe it's not that bad.)


<Edited to correct a spelling error.>

tarotx said:

It sicken's me that I can watch people have sex any time I want but can't watch beautiful sport.

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Red Dog said:

Why else would there be all these debates as to whether figure skating (or gymnastics for that matter) is a sport?

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Because of homophobia and sexism, methinks. The more male dominated sports don't want to be grouped with what they consider to be the "sissy" sports.

tarotx,

tarotx said:

Hello! ESPN shows poker and spelling bees.

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And don't forget Gary Kasparov! ESPN showed him fighting the machines so many times he should have had a part in the last Terminator movie.

Back on topic. The general public is not into Figure Skating. I know it is hard to believe but they do not go ga ga over camel spins and split jumps. For most people, once you've seen the elements of figure skating, you've seen them forever.

Having said that, there is a core of figure skating fans who can not get enough of it. But, unfortunately, there are not enough fans in that core to sustain the financing of a cable network devoted to fs.

There is a still smaller core of fans who like [skating] only and do not worry about the costumes. Their interest is soley on competitions and who skates the best that night.

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I concur- just like all people aren't going to like golf, tennis, football, baseball, etc. The fans of said sports can't believe anyone wouldn't like their sport but it happens.

Now, the debate about Figure Skating being a "sport". I have my own opinion, and apparently the dictionary has defined a definition for "sport". Also apparent is that each person seems to have their own definition for sport. One poster says he/she thinks boxing is not a sport. I happen to think it is. But that's JMO.

There seems to be fine lines in many cases. I happen to think that any events that are decided by judges simply cannot be called sports. And this includes but is not limited to Figure Skating. But that's JMO once again. A lot of people here disagree with me (obviously) and will argue that it is indeed a sport. But I see more to it than that. There has to be a purpose as to why you're doing what you're doing (to run/throw the farthest? To score the most points?). There has to be a set system in place for deciding a winner (a rule system, not people). It should be competitive. Those are just some examples that I can think of right now.

Just like people don't think boxing, or golf, or even fishing is a sport, I don't think Figure Skating can be called a sport. But that's just my opinion. I don't deny it takes physical exertion and skill to move about on the ice. But that doesn't automatically put it in the category of Sports, in my book anyway.

P.S. IMO, The comment about being able to watch people having sex and not watch "beautiful sport", is priceless.

Hello! ESPN shows poker and spelling bees

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I think it should occur to us that ESPN stands for Entertainment and Sports Programming Network. This means that ESPN is "entitled" not only to show sports, but entertain as well. Now, poker tournaments, spelling bees, sports movies, cheerleading contests, ice skating shows, etc. could fall into the category of Entertainment. Just because it is shown on ESPN doesn't have to mean that it's a sport. JMO.

Because of homophobia and sexism, methinks. The more male dominated sports don't want to be grouped with what they consider to be the "sissy" sports.

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While I don't doubt that this is the case in many instances, often times it just doesn't fit people's idea of what "sport" is. Including my case.

Red Dog said:

There seems to be fine lines in many cases. I happen to think that any events that are decided by judges simply cannot be called sports.

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RedDog, what about, say, Greco-Roman wrestling? While it looks like the point is to beat the opponent to the mat, in reality much of the result is decided by, well, the judges.

Or take a seemingly straight forward sport such as speed skating. Now, remember the Apolo Ohno at SLC, and how he was not penalized for shoving aside the Korean skater? A fine line indeed!

The topic of an ice channel for figure skating buffs has turned into a debate as to whether figure skating is a sport or not.

Whether or not figure skating is a sport, it does not have sufficient fans to warrant its own cable TV show at the moment, and no one person, group of persons or government to support it.

Joe

Joesitz said:

[Figure Skating] does not have sufficient fans to warrant its own cable TV show at the moment, and no one person, group of persons or government to support it.

Joe

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ITA. It's nowhere as widespread or accessible as golf, tennis, etc.

It's too risky. It's a judged event, you have scandals, viewership is like a roller coaster (which is currently on the 200ft drop right about now), therefore it doesn't get much respect from the mainstream public. Worst of all, it's losing it's credibility. And of all things, credibility is the most important part of any institution or person. When you don't have any credibility, you get no respect. And without respect, you can't have support.

It sucks for the hard-core skating fans, but there it is. If skating REALLY wants an ice channel, they first have to restore credibility. And how do you do that? By getting rid of corrupt judging. That's just the tip of the iceberg. In fact I'd venture to say that unless by some miracle skating can rid itself of the menace called judging, it will never get the respect that fans think it deserves.

RedDog, what about, say, Greco-Roman wrestling? While it looks like the point is to beat the opponent to the mat, in reality much of the result is decided by, well, the judges.

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I'm not familiar with this kind of wrestling so I can't comment on that. But where you face off against one another and then you have judges decide who wins, rather than the event itself, it's an event or activity and NOT a sport.

JMO.

It's not that fan only want to see top skaters, but that's all that we get to see on TV. I enjoy watching all the skaters from last place to first. We never get the chance to see the Jr. skates, networks never show that and I think some of them are better than the top Sr. skaters and just as insteresting to watch. IMO I think pay per view would go over because maybe some who can't afford to go to the compatitions or have time away due to work or family can afford the pay pew view.
As to what is a sport and what is not, since when is poker a sport? ESPN airs it, it's not a sport to me it's gambling which I have nothing against ( I work for at a casino).

I agree with you. :agree: It has to be extremely difficult for the general public to take figure skating seriously as a sport, given that it's run amuck with judging scancals, political snookery, bloc votes, "you vote for my guy and I vote for your guy", not to mention the fact that so many of the so-called figure skating competitions hardly merit the label "competition". The pro-am events are just plain laughable, IMHO.

In my opinon, when you go out to compete, you go out with your best effort, not with a "work in progress", which is exactly what most of the skaters in the Grand Prix circuit do. And, frankly, so many times the skating is sloppy and full of mistakes. Does the public really want to see this?

Do you all remember the profusion of skating competitions that arose in the mid-1990's? I distinctly remember several top pro skaters who appeared in these events, wearing the same costume and skating the same program. In other words, we were all served the same helping, ad nausem. How many times do you want to sit through the identical performance, especially when these events really do not "count" on the international skating calendar?

Yes, I enjoyed the wonderful skating specials that starred Dorothy Hamill, Peggy Fleming, Scott Hamilton, and other top skaters. Each of these specials showcased these stars, and they typically had one or more special numbers for each show. Now, that's the way to build and retain audience interest - not the same old stuff presented for the nth time.

Returning to the issue of the Ice Channel - will it ever come into being? I sure wouldn't bet the ranch on it.

Maybe the Ice Channel could exist if it included ALL types of skating on ice - including speed skating, ice hockey, barrel jumping , as well as figure skating. Oh well, dream on......

Why is this even a discussion issue? It makes me want to bang my a head against the wall! The only purpose to label figure skating or Gymnastics not a sport is to devalue it. I've asked many a many people what is the point if not to devalue and so far there has been no reason. If this isn't your case-what is your cause?

Also a figure skating channel could have such events as regionals, sectionals and nationals for all novices, juniors and seniors. We never get to see these most of these events.We would be able to see the lesser knows and the young ones come up.

There could also be reality shows about skaters and fictional ones as well.

Works in progress are the best these skaters have to offer during the competition. Pro sports players often step up their play in the post season.

The reason Ice skating has lost a lot of its fans is there's few live televised events and the only one there is, Michelle Kwan wins everytime so there is no competition. People like the drama of a live event and for there to be some doubt on who the winner will be....