TT choreographed both MK's LP and a new SP | Page 5 | Golden Skate

TT choreographed both MK's LP and a new SP

Joined
Jul 11, 2003
kyla2 said:
It has always been Michelle who took out the moves in the field and the choreography. It was no one else. I think what the family tends to do, is defend her position, which makes it look like they are behind it. They are a loyal and loving family so I have no criticism of them at all. But I would bet money Cristopher Dean had a much more complex program designed for Michelle, but being the professional he is, he hasn't said anything in public about it. I do think Joe you are right about Michelle's fear of falling and that's why she loses so much of it from the begining of the season to the end. I think she will be less inclined to do this with TT. From the money standpoint alone, she must have paid TT big bucks to choreograph this program, so let's hope she doesn't water it down. She has to fight her way through her fears and just go for it. If she does that she will have nothing to regret, come what may.
Interesting, Kyla. I, too, can not imagine, Dean not using MIF in a routine. That's what made Dean Dean!

I'm hoping she takes the risks of leaving the MIFs-into-elements a noticeable factor in her routine. She has beautiful stroking and crossovers but it is no longer enough even with beautiful arms. Otherwise we will see the usual pretty skating without any bite that has been so prevalent in her routines since DC Worlds. Dark music and repetitive music doesn't help either. I hope she has a nice lyrical LP with bite.

While Michelle mostly and also Sasha have an up hill battle with Irina, either one or both of them can do it. It's a new 'whole package' thing now and Irina has it.
Solid jumps and wow extensions are not enough.

Joe
 

nymkfan51

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The truth is none of us knows who was responsible for the changes in MK's program, nor what was supposed to be in it to begin with. It's fun to speculate, but that's all this is. As far as I know, none of us were privvy to her practice sessions.

From all that I hear, MK is completely focused on the upcoming season. Supposedly, she is landing with fairly decent consistency, 3 different 3/3's. The 3Z/3T ... 3S/3R ... and 3T/3R. I have no guarantees of the accuracy of these reports, but because I have heard them from a few different sources, I am more inclined than usual to believe them.
And her choreography will be what it will be. It won't be more just because we want it to be, and we probably will never know the ins and outs of how she settles on a final product. The one thing she has that we don't is all the facts. We are looking as fans from a distance, without the many factors that go into building and performing a program. So keeping this in mind, I will respect that whatever Michelle gives us this season is the very best she can give, and win or lose, I will be satisfied.
 

RealtorGal

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
nymkfan51 said:
Supposedly, she is landing with fairly decent consistency, 3 different 3/3's. The 3Z/3T ... 3S/3R ... and 3T/3R. I have no guarantees of the accuracy of these reports, but because I have heard them from a few different sources, I am more inclined than usual to believe them.
And much as I would like to believe these reports, I am more inclined than usual to NOT believe them. Michelle is a great artist, but if she hasn't mastered these combos already, I find it very difficult to believe that after all these years, they are suddenly in her arsenal of jumps with any degree of consistency. I believe she will attempt one 3/3 combo this season and it will end with a 3T and not a 3R.
 

nymkfan51

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
As I said, since I have not seen them myself, I have no way of knowing just how accurate the reports are. I guess we will just have to wait and see. ;)

BTW, no matter how many she is landing in practice, I doubt she would attempt more than one 3/3 combo in a program. There's really no need to.
 

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
kyla2 said:
She has to be motivated and that's where I think the crux of it lies. She has won so much in the past, it becomes same old, same old. It's all old news. The good news is, she doesn't like to lose and she did last year-no medal at all, besides which she has never won an OGM. So if that doesn't light a fire under her, nothing ever will.

Yes. She has to be motivated and 'hungry' again.
 

Fozzie Bear

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Joesitz, no need to apologize. ;)
I agree with you and kyla re: the MITF. I hope she can go back to the level of choreography she had pre-2002.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Who made the changes in Michelle's programs in past years is irrelevant, but Moves-In-the-Field disappeared. That was my point. If anyone thinks she doesn't need them, well, that's their opinion.

As far as practicing 3x3s, that subject has come up in many past years, and when was that last combo done in competition? I think it was in worlds 2001, but I am not sure.

If she does one this season, it will bring more points, if she does two, it will bring all the more points. If she does MIF she will get points. If she spins faster she will get more points. How many points is she behind Irina and Sasha at this point in time? How focussed is she on upping her tech at this point in time?

I think many of MK's ardent fans still see her winning on her artistry in the 6.0 tradition - not going to happen in CoP. Those reports on the several 3x3 combos. as RG pointed out, are difficult to believe at such a late stage in her career.

IMO, Michelle is the most beautiful figure skater I have ever seen, and I have seen a lot. She doesn't pretend to be the best jumper nor does she pretend to be an acrobat or a balerina (praise to be). She's a grand figure skater.

However, I do not see Michelle as a podium competitor. I'm hoping to see a ray of light in the forthcoming competitions (even Campbells).

Joe
 
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nymkfan51

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Joe, I think very few people at this point see her winning based on artistry under 6.0. No one is saying that.
Everyone has their opinions of what she needs to do, and there is no right or wrong answer really.
I don't really understand your skepticism about MK, but hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised this season.
 

Kasey

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
nymkfan51 said:
That's a 3 loop.

When was the last time Michelle did a 3loop in a program, solo, let alone as part of a combo? Two seasons? More? Less? I don't think she had one at all last year.

With all the talk of Tarasova choreographing for Michelle, Johnny, and Tim, let's not forget she is also coach (not just choreographer) for Shizuka, Griazev and Orlova/Novikov. A busy and talented lady, because I am sure that no two of these programs will look alike.

I really hope that Michelle doesn't "tweak" with Tarasova's choreography too much. It's been shown to be successful in the past...why tamper with it? (Unless you can't handle it, in which case, make it simpler in the beginning!)

Oh yeah, and I loved TT's quote about "None of them is Yagudin"....truly the boy owns her heart! :)
 

KwanFan1212

Joey Votto Fangirl
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
I don't really understand your skepticism about MK, but hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised this season.


You said that nicer than me! I'm starting to wonder if MK did something personal to Joe in the last year and that's why he's so down on her! What's up with that Joe?!?! LOL :rofl:

As far as the reports go, I've heard for the last two years that MK is landing 3x3s in practices. She can do them but maybe they've not been as consistant as she would like before she throws them into a program. I think this will be the year that she does lay them down in a program though. She knows what she needs to do. I think her going to TT for programs is part of a big plan of hers to do everything she can to work with this new system and give her that legitimate shot at the OGM. Some people are counting her out, she's not really a favourite for anything (except maybe a 10th US title since she's pretty much owned Nats for a while now), and its a big Olys year. Nothing lights a fire underneath her more than being counted out and people not believing in her. Remember 2000 Worlds?! Yeah, I do. I believe that was world title #3. ;) I don't think that Irina has a lockdown on that OGM and hey, its the Olys, anything can happen there. Call me an optimist, call me stupid, call me a loser, call me whatever you want, but I am looking forward to this season and I really believe that MK is going to surprise us all. And I simply cannot wait for this season to come because I think its going to be fabulous. :rock:
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
nymkfan51 said:
Joe, I think very few people at this point see her winning based on artistry under 6.0. No one is saying that.
Everyone has their opinions of what she needs to do, and there is no right or wrong answer really.
I don't really understand your skepticism about MK, but hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised this season.
nymkfan51 - I'm not expecting a bad performance of MK during these competitions, but then I am not expecting a perfect CoP skate either. However, it is the latter that keeps me from expecting an automatic win or placement.

I am more realistic among the kwanfans. However, there is much to agree with those nonfans of what she needs to do well under the CoP. It's not just opinions. It's a reality. She showed some real energy at DC Worlds and then I noticed a lack of enthusiasm. Maybe she felt the demands of the CoP.

None of her fans are going to stop loving her. That was obvious when she lost the gold in 78, and they wont stop loving her after the 2006 Olys regardless of the outcome. But it's a new ball game now, and relying on errors from competitors is not the way to go if fans are hoping for a win.

I am actually looking forward to seeing TT's choreography at Campbells. Whether she wins this thing or not is for me totally irrelevant. I just want to see what is going on with her for this Olympic season. I will definitely relent my views if I see a spark.

I think everyone is skeptic in some way about all the skaters. One only has to read the various nitpicks.

Joe
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I do think Michelle can do all these triple-triples. She could do them all along, she's just been laying low as part of her strategy. She might even become the first lady to do a triple Axel at Skate America since Ludmilla Nelidina.

MM
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
OK, so it looks like her jump layout is

2A
3Lz/3T/2Lo
3F
3S/3L
2A
3F/2T
3T

Change that last 3T to a solo 3Lz and she will be pretty close to maxing out

I loved this part:

"spread eagle into double axel---landing held---into charlotte position into a back camel spin, catch foot spin (like in SOTBS).....back layback position still holding blade, dropping blade into headless spin (like in sheherezade)....a lot of speed....triple salchow, triple looop---landed" (from poster i12gosk8 at MK forum).

Thanks for the link, nymkfan!
 

nymkfan51

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I don't know about the last jump. i12gosk8 said there was serious footwork choreographed into the 3T ... maybe the 3Z would be asking too much. He said the spins still need work ... I expect those are the things that will be tweaked as the season goes on.
The music was Rach ... parts of Paganini, and maybe Con #3 (not what she used before) and Con #2 ... the 3rd movement, YAY!!!

And one of the coaches there told him that they "thought" her SP music might be Cappricio Italien. I'm not familiar with that, is anyone else?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
OK, I just listened to it (Cappriccio Italien). Plenty of material there -- its about 10 minutes long -- it all depends on the cuts.

Starts out with a very famous fanfare. Goes into a lyrical part, builds to a repeat of the fanfare theme. This is followed by a quiet part featuring instruments in the lower register (bassoon).

The main section is a rollicking (but not too fast) march. The tempo increases to a scherzo section featuring Spanish-style trumpets and horns. A dramatic bridge part leads to a fast and playful dance, building in force and drama into a return of the march theme. Lots of changes of tempo. Furious ending in symphonic style.

MM
 
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