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Thread: Programs by Dean

  1. #16
    Tripping on the Podium
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    I think he also did one (if not both) of Jeremy Abbott's programs this year.

  2. #17
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    Well, if you want to see Dean's original choreography of Bolero for Kwan, then winter Marshall's version was what you looking for....there are a lot things/difficulties were added in compare to the Campbells....The Campbells was the watered down version with a lot of her own inputs, that's why she felt so comfortable with....and they(MK and RA) just changed footwork a few days before Campbell to make it more difficult under CoP.
    Last edited by mzheng; 08-31-2005 at 10:23 AM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzheng
    Well, if you want to see Dean's original choreography of Bolero for Kwan, then winter Marshall's version was what you looking for....
    AFAIK, that's just speculation from fans. Although the program changed several times during the season, I think the only name pointed as choreographer was Christopher Dean. Now if all versions were variations created by him or if there was an original version that was changed by Kwan's camp (and we don't know what the original version is), it's all speculation.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElFuego
    I think he also did one (if not both) of Jeremy Abbott's programs this year.
    Dean did Abbott's SP to I'm A-Doun by Vanessa Mae. Damon Allen did his LP.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIskatingfan
    AFAIK, that's just speculation from fans. Although the program changed several times during the season, I think the only name pointed as choreographer was Christopher Dean. Now if all versions were variations created by him or if there was an original version that was changed by Kwan's camp (and we don't know what the original version is), it's all speculation.
    Yeah, it was also my 'speculation' (or rather I heard the 'rumor') that Dean had called Raphael (after he watched Campbell televised on TV) that it was very important that Michelle skated to the original version he had choreographed.

  6. #21
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    If Dean did call, who could blame him? If I were a choreographer, I wouldn't want my name used and my work gutted either.

  7. #22
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    I liked the Campbell's version better, of the two. But it's kind of hard to tell because she performed it better at Campbell's than at the later Marshall's event. There's nothing like hitting all your jumps if you want to sell the choreography. Just ask the judges.
    Last edited by Mathman; 08-31-2005 at 02:50 PM.

  8. #23
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    I don't think the Bolero program worked for Michelle at all, the footwork was too busy in the beginning. After the early season fall at the end of the program (Campbell's), she needed to spend too much time working on fast twizzles, which is a dance type move that she hadn't used in her programs before. I think the effort on the footwork took too much practice time away from other things, like jumps and spins, and hurt her at Worlds.

    Also, I think that the music is better suited to a dance pair, and not good for a solo skater.

    All in all, I think he should stick to the Pros and stay out of the competitive World.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzheng
    Yeah, it was also my 'speculation' (or rather I heard the 'rumor') that Dean had called Raphael (after he watched Campbell televised on TV) that it was very important that Michelle skated to the original version he had choreographed.
    Yes, speculation and rumours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    I liked the Campbell's version better, of the two. But it's kind of hard to tell because she performed it better at Campbell's than at the later Marshall's event. There's nothing like hitting all your jumps if you want to sell the choreography. Just ask the judges.
    Not really, I think it's perfectly possible to miss jumps and still sell the program and the choreography very well. That's one of the reasons Jeff Buttle got the silver medal last Worlds. The reason I enjoyed more the Campbell's version than Marshall's had to do with the overall quality of the peformance, not the jumps. I remember reading she was having trouble with the boots or something, so it probably helps to explain the bad performance.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdnuva
    Kwan fans might not like to hear my answer - so if you are thinking she only does good and everyone else is at fault, stop reading here.

    My opinion on choreographing. For amateurs. It's not a thing done alone by the choreographer in an ivory tower. Of course s/he has to stay in touch with coach and skater to know what the skills are, which jumps are possible, how far into the program (depending on the stamina of the skater), which spins and so on. So, the basic element setup is surely not only done by the choreographer.

    Where the choreographer CAN play a big role are the MITF, the transitions and everything that is judged in the categories choreography and interpretation. And I think there is not much dispute that Dean's choreos excel in this department.

    The only mention I found of Kwan about Dean's choreo in Bolero (besides the basic info he did it) was just after one of the cheesefests when she fell in the step sequence. She said the steps were too hard.

    So I think it's just her abilities and skills. If overall or just last season is not my job to decide. But at least last season it was too much for her to execute decent jumps, decent spins and then having to bother with steps in between. So she obviously threw out everything that "distracts" her. Which left us spectators with an empty program. And I crinch everytime I read this (end product) would be a Dean program.
    (BTW, my reply here is also not for the ardent Kwannies. Just a word of warning)

    That said, I really see nothing in your post that a level-headed Kwan fan would have any problems with (JMO).

    I think there is something in what you said. It's certainly possible that Dean's original choreography was too hard for her (IIRC didn't she fall on some footwork at Campbell's?) but given Kwan's level in skating, I'm almost SURE that if she worked hard enough, she might have at least been able to get a grasp on it. My hunch: she did not want to do something that difficult in a non-Olympic year. She wanted to take it easy, as usual, and not do the GP, etc. But now that it IS the Olympic season, and Tarasova supposedly choreographed her programs, she better keep them the way they are and try as hard as she can to get it. If she absolutely is unable to do it then she can do some reasonable tweaking to the program. But she really needs the difficulty to win.

    JMO.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovid101
    I don't think the Bolero program worked for Michelle at all, the footwork was too busy in the beginning. After the early season fall at the end of the program (Campbell's), she needed to spend too much time working on fast twizzles, which is a dance type move that she hadn't used in her programs before. I think the effort on the footwork took too much practice time away from other things, like jumps and spins, and hurt her at Worlds.

    Also, I think that the music is better suited to a dance pair, and not good for a solo skater.

    All in all, I think he should stick to the Pros and stay out of the competitive World.
    I'd like to rephrase it.
    - Dean's Bolero for Kwan did not work cause Kwan did not cope with the transitions AND technical elements.
    - Kwan has trouble with twizzles (according to you). Which are btw a part of footwork sequences for other skaters, too.
    - Kwan choose to skate to Bolero. Afaik there was never a question about that. It's a demanding music. Seems she has trouble expressing the style needed for that.
    - Dean did not search Kwan to choreograph for her. Kwan asked Dean.
    - Dean choreographed a program for Kwan before (Rush) which was rather unanimously praised. But that was some years ago. Maybe either her skills diminished or her will to commit to a program. But I doubt his method of choreographing changed that much.
    - If you tell Dean to stick to the pro world.. AND we are talking about one of the top eligible skaters having problems to perform a Dean routine while several of "old" pros like Kristi or Kurt can do it, maybe that sheds a nicer light on the ability of pros compared to eligibles? *ggg* (Oh - and don't tell me they are not doing tech elements. They are. Maybe no quads or 3a but they are skating a lot on an SOI evening plus they do it several times a week. Takes a lot of stamina, too.)

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SusanBeth
    If Dean did call, who could blame him? If I were a choreographer, I wouldn't want my name used and my work gutted either.
    I wouldn't blame Dean either. I remembered at the time (after Campbells televised and watched her interview) I was chatting with someone, even joked about what Dean would think about the program if indeed team MK had stripped the original version already.....cuz you know she was known of 'stripping' by so many fans....It was funny that late (after winter Marshalls) I was told the Marshall's one is the original one and Dean indeed called RA (I do believe MS). It was also posted at the internet that Dean does not like anyone change his choregraphy, either take it or leave it kind attitude (also 'rumor' or 'speculation' ?).....

    Was her footwork more difficult in Marshalls (winter) than the one in Campbells? Of course by Nationals and worlds all the footwork in LP reverted to an easy version.

    Most of infomation posted at web were originated from some kind speculation and/or rumore. And suprising, suprising,.....most times it does turns out to be true....like Sasha's and Michelle's coach changes seasons ago. They all started at internet as some kind of rumors. Then late all are proved to be true......remember? AFAIK nowadays, most FS info started at internet skating board as rumor first.....
    Last edited by mzheng; 08-31-2005 at 04:30 PM.

  13. #28
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    Dean might get mad if a skater changes his program. But remember, the skater hires the choreographer, not the other way around.

  14. #29
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    I watched her LIVE twice - Nats and Worlds - and in rinskide position. She was definitely with the music and with the character of the music. The bolero is not a habanero or a paso doble. It is the forerunner to the Tango, a dance much used by skaters for singles.

    I don't like the music for a solo. It belongs in big productions numbers where the chorus can easily get the repititive beat and the choreographer can relax.

    Aside from the choice of music, what bothered me about Michelle was the forward and backward crossovers. too much of them. If Dean had MIFs or specific basics in those progams and they were taken out for crossovers then
    the fault lies not in the stars, Michelle, it lies with her not Dean.

    Mind you, it is crossovers that one gets the most speed and speed is what makes a jump easier. It's not the greatest to see many skaters (not just Kwan) do crossovers for speed and the do an forward inside three turn into a triple toe loop, but that's what just about everyone does.

    IMO, she is the most talented and best of the bunch when it comes to performance. She should utilize this, and let her choreography sing

    Joe

  15. #30
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    Thanks for posting, Ovid101. Welcome to Golden Skate!

    Mathman

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