Russian skating official shot

Mathman · Aug 31, 2005

Red Dog, what I thought was interesting is that the two articles together did not show Berezhnaya/Sikharudlidze and Sale/Pelletier, but rather Berezhnaya/Sikharudlidze and Anassina/Peiserat.

Evidently in the minds of some Russian journalists, those are the two skating teams that are forever linked by this scandal.

Joesitz (RIP) · Aug 31, 2005

But no fan believes for one minuted that B&S or A&P had anything to do with the scandal. One poster seemed to be worried about others not skating fans who would jump to conclusions. I doubt if 'others' read fs forums. then came the ususal arguments on who skated the best which had nothing to do with the article.

Joe

R.D. · Aug 31, 2005

Joesitz said:
But no fan believes for one minuted that B&S or A&P had anything to do with the scandal. One poster seemed to be worried about others not skating fans who would jump to conclusions. I doubt if 'others' read fs forums. then came the ususal arguments on who skated the best which had nothing to do with the article.

Joe

I wouldn't be worried, really. The truth is that the scandal happened in the first place, and many people already have come to the conclusion that skating is simply one of those corrupt judged sports that should be kicked out of the Olympics. Trust me on this one, I've read many editorial articles on this very issue. (And who knows, if it happens again this time, it very well may happen.) I don't think one little picture in an article is going to change many minds. The news of the shooting should speak for itself.

Ptichka · Aug 31, 2005

Red Dog said:
I really don't think that picture was a big deal.

I disagree. The victim of this crime is not B&S, S&P, A&P, or anyone else. The only victim of a known crime is Mr. Nusuev. It's basic journalism to put forth a picture of a shooting victim on the story rather a picture evoking a scandal of 3 years ago that had nothing to do with the murder. In fact, the article did not even bother to say how many rounds were fired into the guy, or that this was not the first attempt on his life, nor anything else for that matter. Instead, it had a brief paragraph stating that the murder took place, followed by rehashing of the old scandal.

R.D. · Aug 31, 2005

Ptichka said:
I disagree. The victim of this crime is not B&S, S&P, A&P, or anyone else. The only victim of a known crime is Mr. Nusuev. It's basic journalism to put forth a picture of a shooting victim on the story rather a picture evoking a scandal of 3 years ago that had nothing to do with the murder.

I was referring to the scandal, not the crime (at least if what you mean by "crime" was the actual shooting).

Ptichka · Aug 31, 2005

Red Dog said:
I was referring to the scandal, not the crime (at least if what you mean by "crime" was the actual shooting).

I know, and that's the point. A story about a crime should focus on that crime as opposed to the scandal the victim was involved with years ago. The latter should be included only as a reference about the victim, not as 75% of the story.

R.D. · Aug 31, 2005

There's always the possibility of a connection between the two...but personally I see nothing wrong with it; it's an event that happened and saying that the person killed was involved in the scandal is just identifying who he is, IMO.

Ptichka · Aug 31, 2005

I am not saying it's inappropriate to mention the scandal, only to emphasize it so. Here is an example of an article on the same subject (Nusuyev's murder) that IMO treats the subject properly: http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2005/08/31/013.html.

Vash01 · Sep 5, 2005

Red Dog said:
There's always the possibility of a connection between the two...but personally I see nothing wrong with it; it's an event that happened and saying that the person killed was involved in the scandal is just identifying who he is, IMO.

"Always a possibility???" Unless you are a detective assigned to the task I would not make that assumption. Publishing an article without any proof whatsoever is extremely poor journalism, and this is an example of it.

millie · Sep 5, 2005

They shoudn't have brought up specific skater's names in this article. Nothing like the journalist starting a controversy going into the next winter Olympic games. Way to go guys. :disagree: :disagree: :disagree: Let sleeping dogs lie

R.D. · Sep 5, 2005

Vash01 said:
"Always a possibility???" Unless you are a detective assigned to the task I would not make that assumption. Publishing an article without any proof whatsoever is extremely poor journalism, and this is an example of it.

It's not an assumption I was making. It's simply acknowledging that since I don't know the details of the case, for all I know anything is a possibility here. Now, if I took that statement and said I know, or I believe this is happening, then things get different.

Joesitz (RIP) · Sep 5, 2005

Ptichka said:
I know, and that's the point. A story about a crime should focus on that crime as opposed to the scandal the victim was involved with years ago. The latter should be included only as a reference about the victim, not as 75% of the story.

Absolutely, but a good journalist will cover the 5 questions of a story:

What (happened)?

When (did it happen)?

Where (did it happen)?

Who (was involved)?

and the fifth and most difficult to figure out....WHY (did it happen)?

Joe

antmanb · Sep 6, 2005

Joesitz said:
But no fan believes for one minuted that B&S or A&P had anything to do with the scandal. One poster seemed to be worried about others not skating fans who would jump to conclusions. I doubt if 'others' read fs forums. then came the ususal arguments on who skated the best which had nothing to do with the article.

Joe

Well there are some stories linking Marina Annissina (sp?) to the fixing of the result - i think there are some accounts in the book on the three top pairs from SLC (sorry brain hasn't warmed up yet but i think its called The Second Mark) and there were some reports just after the SLC Olympics too - remember A&P not returning to the US to skate in case she was questioned? All quite fishy to me!

Ant

antmanb · Sep 6, 2005

Ptichka said:
I know, and that's the point. A story about a crime should focus on that crime as opposed to the scandal the victim was involved with years ago. The latter should be included only as a reference about the victim, not as 75% of the story.

It depends what the Author's point is though. I haven't read the article but if the feel of the article is "good riddance to bad rubbish" then the story is more likely to be a list of reasons why the dead man won't be missed...on a much greater scale if a murderer or serious criminal is killed or commits suicide in prison the stories often focus on their crimes for the greater part of the story in a similar good riddance to bad rubbish way.

Ant

Ptichka · Sep 6, 2005

Joesitz said:
and the fifth and most difficult to figure out....WHY (did it happen)?

I don't think anyone would think that the involvement in the SLC scandal was why he was killed, though the two are related as far as "life in crime" goes.

I haven't read the article but if the feel of the article is "good riddance to bad rubbish" then the story is more likely to be a list of reasons why the dead man won't be missed.

No, that is not what the author is saying - as is clear from reading the article.

Joesitz (RIP) · Sep 6, 2005

antmanb said:
Well there are some stories linking Marina Annissina (sp?) to the fixing of the result - i think there are some accounts in the book on the three top pairs from SLC (sorry brain hasn't warmed up yet but i think its called The Second Mark) and there were some reports just after the SLC Olympics too - remember A&P not returning to the US to skate in case she was questioned? All quite fishy to me!
Ant

That may or may not be a connexion to the scandal but the Article particularly the Russian article is just concerned about the murder. It's all speculation as to why he was killed. Of course, many reasons are offered. He apparently was not a likeable person.

Regarding the Annissina theory. With whom would she be making a deal with? I think Didier already made the deal and Annisina may have known about it. But the question is With whom was the deal made? The collusion is still unresolved as far as I am concerned.

Joe

antmanb · Sep 8, 2005

Joesitz said:
That may or may not be a connexion to the scandal but the Article particularly the Russian article is just concerned about the murder. It's all speculation as to why he was killed. Of course, many reasons are offered. He apparently was not a likeable person.

Regarding the Annissina theory. With whom would she be making a deal with? I think Didier already made the deal and Annisina may have known about it. But the question is With whom was the deal made? The collusion is still unresolved as far as I am concerned.

Joe

Since i'm actually posting from home and not work i've managed to look it up. In the book "The Second Mark" the following things are written by the author:

"The FBI's case, outlined in a complaint unsealed inJuly, went farther. Apparently Tokhtakhounov was a close associate of the skater Marina Anissina....Tokhtakhounov hadvacationed with her, dined with her and talked to both Anissina and her mother on the telephone from his villa in Italy. Some of those calls had been taped by the Italian police, and now the FBI's complaint produced wiretap evidence of Tokhtakhounov talking to several people about fixing the Olympics so that the Russians could winthe pairs and his friend Marina Anissina, skating for France, could win the dance." pg 275

And also:

"According to the FBI and the wiretap transcripts, two weeks after the Olympics, Marina Anissina, now the Olympic gold medalist, called Tokhtakhounov from France, She apologized for not calling sooner, but said that Didier Gailhaguet had come to her room in the Olympic village and taken her 'to the car', where, in privacy, he warned her that the FBI were questioning him and she shouldn't call Tokhtakhounov from the States. She told Tokhtakhounov that his Russian coconspirator 'came up to me and started yelling at me, "call Alik," but [Didier] forbid me to call, so i could not call.' Tokhtakhounov accpeted her apology and assured her that he had done a good job for her: Even had she stumbled, Tokhtakhounov bragged, she still would have won the Olympics." pg.276

Ant

Vash01 · Sep 9, 2005

There are many fictionalized and some misrepresented facts in the Second Mark. They are facts that can be verified with videos. I don't want to discuss that book for the zillionth time. All I can say is I would not use that book for reference.

attyfan · Sep 9, 2005

FWIW, in its affidavit supporting the attemt to indict of Tokhtakhounov. the FBI said that it had tapes of someone identified as the French female ice dancer discussing the matter with the "Little Taiwanese". so there is some basis for the statements in "The Second Mark".

Mathman · Sep 9, 2005

I think it is pretty well agreed by all parties that Tokhtakhounov was a two-bit hoodlum who liked to think that he had friends and influence in the sports scene. He was pals with some Russian hockey players and tennis stars, as well as being acquainted with Marina Anasinna and her mother. (He was also accused of being involved in drug trafficking and of once conspiring to fix a beauty contest, LOL.)

Some of the other stuff, for instance that he offered to help the French Skating Federation win medals in exchange for getting a visa from the French government, seem a little far fetched.

Well, the ISU is content with the results of its "investigation." For reasons unknown the President of the French federation unduly pressured the French judge to support the Russian pairs team. M. Gailhaguet was given a temporary suspension for attempting to exert undue influence over the judging process, and Mme. Le Gougne was also suspended temporarily for not reporting this attempt through the proper ISU channels.

All's well that ends well. On to Torino!

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