Final Lineup Confirmed for Campbell's Classic

gezando said:

You are a bit sensitive??I am not making it worse than it was. I said Cohen received some tepid response from some audience, not all the audience. i said Michelle received warmer response from some audience. That was from reading eye witnesses. I was not there. So what is your problem ??

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!! Man, talk about calling me sensitive when you're the one overreacting...

I was just saying that the way you phrased things made it sound like Cohen was treated like dirt there. And I don't think that was exactly the case by reading the reports. Aside from the small booing crowd, it seemed to be all good. That's all. And Just My Opinion.

Typically coaches (and skaters) keep stuff like that private.

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I don't know typically what skating coaches do. OTOH, typically, skaters do listen to their coaches, Sarah Hughes is an example.Typically coaches do talk freely, how many times had Larry Brown tallk about Iverson.

Red Dog said:

!! Man, talk about calling me sensitive when you're the one overreacting...

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And it is my opinion that you are overreacting. We weren't there, and according to you if a section of fans boo Sasha fall fall, that qualifies saying that she received some tepid response from some audience. We are talkking about the same thing

gezando said:

I don't know typically what skating coaches do. OTOH, typically, skaters do listen to their coaches, Sarah Hughes is an example.

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Well that leads me to- why hire a coach if you're NOT going to listen to him/her in the first place? :scratch: What a concept...

(Rhetorical question guys.)

Typically coaches do talk freely, how many times had Larry Brown tallk about Iverson.

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That's a sport. That's different. I feel skating has that more "exclusive" feeling. In the NBA you have coaches like Phil Jackson putting out books spilling all the dirt about what does on behind those closed doors and in the locker rooms. How often do you hear about that in skating? To go behind the scenes you (mostly) have to rely on the autobiographies of the skaters themselves.

gezando said:

And it is my opinion that you are overreacting. We weren't there, and according to you if a section of fans boo Sasha fall fall, that qualifies saying that she received some tepid response from some audience. We are talkking about the same thing

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Alrighty then, we'll just leave it at that.

:scratch:

Red Dog said:

That's a sport. That's different.

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Skating is also a sport, but if we view it as something so exclusive then we may want to consider it a beauty contest. That is why some of my friends do not watch fs, because they think it is beauty pageant on ice. I believe Frank talked openiy about Bowman at one point, so skating is really not that exclusive JMO

Skating is also a sport

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There's just one small problem though. You have that line of people with their computers punching in numbers during skating competitions. After that they use those numbers to determine the placement of the event. These people are known to most of us as "judges".

(JUST MY OPINION )

Red Dog said:

There's just one small problem though. You have that line of people with their computers punching in numbers during skating competitions. After that they use those numbers to determine the placement of the event. These people are known to most of us as "judges".

(JUST MY OPINION )

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OK are you saying the skating is not a sports??? My friends think of it as beauty contest on ice. If that be the case, I can see why the uber fans are so angry at Robin for speaking freely, because they possibly don't think of her as a coach, they possibly think of her a handler or a hired publicity agent??? If that be the case, I can understand why the ubers Robin so much when Cohen first started training Cohen, but then had a 180 turn after a few months. (ahem, training is a word for sports, and beauty contest)

In the world of sports coaches talk freely about thier pupils' training habits, lack of motivation, unwilling to work hard, and these coaches do not get dissed for it. In fact Larry Brown was praised by fans for talking about Iverson.

gezando said:

OK are you saying the skating is not a sports???

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Yes I am. But I also don't think of it as a "beauty contest" although one aspect of skating essentially is just that.

In the world of sports coaches talk freely about thier pupils' training habits, lack of motivation, unwilling to work hard, and these coaches do not get dissed for it. In fact Larry Brown was praised by fans for talking about Iverson.

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Yes. That's very true. And ITA- if you want to talk about it, dish it out- just don't dish out what you can't take back (in other words, expect a backlash).

Actually, when RW expressed her thoughts on why the relationship didn't work out I didn't see it as necessarily bad because in sports, coaches do that all the time. But after the ensuing backlash it cemented in my mind that skating is very different. Everything is supposed to be flowery and beautiful on the outside, but when the truth is exposed there seems to be a certain amount of denial (?). The only exception here seems to be the major problem- which is corrupt judging. Even then, only the fans and the lower-level participants seem to be willing to admit it. JMO.

Dish out and take in:
example(s) of dishing it out :
When Galina Cohen dished that out in Russian press about TT taking charity cases
Possible a second exampe: It is reported that Cohen made those comments about TT in the Moscow press conference

Hey guys - Can we have your final summing up remarks and end this discussion and maybe talk about Joannie joining the group at Campbells which is a departure for the USFSA to invite someone more interesting than the two American Divas which we will be flooded with in the coming months.

Joe

I won't make any predictions on how Joannie will do, because I'm not into that.

However, I will say this- it's indeed very interesting that USFS chose her. She definitely has the capacity to do well here. What would be interesting, I think, is not her vs. Kwan or Cohen (because they're way above her) but her vs. some of the up-and-comers like Emily Hughes or Kimmie Meissner, or her vs. Suguri. I think Cohen, Kwan, and Arakawa basically are in a separate league from the rest of the participants.

JMO.

I think Fumie is in that top tier as well

OT:

I think TT said the quote you are attributing to Sasha She said that when she was talking about umm firing Sasha and encouraging her to go to Robin. It would be weird for Sasha to say the quote last season because she umm dumped her American coach for a British one. But who knows with Sasha

After reading a ton of internet sites and articles this is what I've decided happened or at least close to what happened.....

I think TT group coaches-I mean she has all her skaters on the rink and she gives pointers and encouragements. There is very few one on ones except for during creating the choreography. Sasha's mom hated that she was paying TT all this money and the Russian skaters weren't paying as much and they had equal time with TT. She wasn't too amused by that even though that is how TT has always coached. It's also how Gymnast are coached and Mrs Cohen was a gymnast. It wasn't as bad in 2002-2003 because NM was TT's assistant coach and Sasha got time with him.

Sasha has these "creative" spurts where she will stay up all night and bake cookies or design dresses and can't workout the next day. That really got on TT's nerves. She believes that skaters should do as their coach tells them (when it comes to things that will affect the skating). She decided that it had to be an American philosophy and Americans should have American coach's and Russians should coach Russians. But then she found out that the Japanese have even more discipline than Russians and the rest is history.

Most Sasha fans just want to see her happy and skate well. At first most fans weren't too amused that Sasha went to Robin but then Sasha seemed happy. At the beginning Robin came to Sasha in Connecticut and then Sasha was living with Robin and all was well. Then Sasha's mom moved to New York and Sasha with her and Slowly Sasha was unhappy. Sasha didn't spend a lot of time with Robin after that. Sasha was always skating elsewhere. Robin wanted Sasha to try pushing herself musically but Sasha turned elsewhere for programs. She knew what she wanted to skate too. TT likes to have overused music so it was never an issue with TT. She just had Sasha do a ton of choreography to make the programs interesting. Mr Nicks makes sure Sasha has unique moves in the programs so they will stand out a little. Robin wanted to change Sasha's philosophy. Which a lot of fans would have been thankful for. I personally have no care if music is overused or not.

There is also issues about Sasha not resting when she should and at other tines over reacting to illnesses/injuries. Sasha's an enigma to coaches. Also the Cohen's have this philosophy that coaches work for them because they are the ones paying while most coaches think of themselves as team leader think this is a teacher to student relationship and demand that level of respect. They don't consider themselves employees Mr Nicks allows Sasha to be Sasha and the Cohens to be the Cohens.

I don't think anybody is in the worng-they are all just different. They want and expect different things.

that's an interesting speculation you've got there. How much stock can we put in it? We will never know, but it's fun to do nonetheless.

None of it's personal or inside knowledge. It's just what I've gotten from reading every article on Sasha I could find since that quote was posted .

I know, that's why I called it "speculation"

I think Joannie has a legitimate chance at the podium. But the one I most want to see is Shizuka. Everyone is saying that she has shaken off the pressure that came with being world champion and is now ready to kick butt.

Both she and Fumie will be coming directly from the Japanese event the week before. Will this affect their performances? Most observers are saying that Irina made the smart choice not to try to do both the Japanese invitational and Campbell's.

I wonder if the ISU is worried that in the future other countries will jump on the cheesefest bandwagon to create a "tour" which competes with the Grand Prix. Sort of like it used to be, where Skate America, etc., were already well established individual events before the ISU wrapped them together as the Grand Prix.

Mathman

That said, there ARE a couple of parts of the "speculation" that I just cannot buy under any circumstances:

1) Cohen staying up all night "decorating" or "baking cookies". Now I'm sure she does this a lot and loves it but I don't know about staying up entire nights here. Maybe she pulled an all-nighter once or twice here and there but I find it hard to believe this could be a habit of hers. Of course, doesn't mean it isn't true...

2) I don't think the NYC part holds up- it doesn't make sense (to ME). Yes, I agree she moved and then "things happened", but we basically have an idea of what the end product was (thanks to Robin spilling the beans). Someone at Cohen's training base in NY said that she was increasingly unhappy over the days.

I get the feeling that she is a difficult one to coach. But this is just inferring from comments and reports. I do not claim to have an answer or the truth. I'm just guessing here.

Where I think you're right:

The whole thing about TT- I think that's how it went down...to some effect anyway.

Robin wanting to push Sasha- I don't know about the "musical" part, but it was clear to me from her interviews that she was frustrated with (Cohen) for not putting enough effort into her training.

And the thing about how Cohen's family sees things.

But enough about Cohen- back to the speculation about Campbell's.

How will Suguri fit into this? I get the feeling that she'll be left in the middle somewhere...will she be able to beat the up-and-comers? WIll she be able to beat Rochette? Like I said before, I don't think she has a chance against Kwan, Cohen or Arakawa but she could place fourth with a good one. (well, maybe if Cohen stumbles, she could sneak ahead somehow. )

I'm not real knowledgeable about Joannie but I'm looking forward to seeing her

Mathman said:

I wonder if the ISU is worried that in the future other countries will jump on the cheesefest bandwagon to create a "tour" which competes with the Grand Prix. Sort of like it used to be, where Skate America, etc., were already well established individual events before the ISU wrapped them together as the Grand Prix.

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Well- most of these events seem to be around fall, right? Maybe it could be a "pre-season" thing. After all, these events don't have short programs. The GP events do. In October you have a "pre-season" tour, then you have the "regular season" GP, the "playoffs" (Nationals) and then the world championships. (Maybe I'm just too much of a sports fan to be here. )