Interesting comment. I though it was "common knowledge" at the time that they threw a bone to Fusar-Poli and Margaglio as a sop to Cinquanta, and another to Bourne and Kratz to shut up the perenniel whining of the Canadian Federation. Then when it came down to it, of course Anassina and Pieserat were the annointed ones, with Lobacheva and Averbukh next in line. No?Originally Posted by Ptichka
MM
Personally, I KNEW that Anissina/Peizerat were going to win the OGM the minute I saw F-P/Margaglio's free dance; however, as reigning World champions, I wouldn't have expected anything less than the silver. Then the GPF results (which made my jaw drop) pretty much led me to confirm my belief that Bourne/Kraatz would get the bronze, in part because of the Nagano dance controversy, and in part because of the shrieking that went on at the 2001 Worlds over their 4th place. I don't necessarily believe that Lobacheva/Averbukh were the next in line for anointment because I was rather under the impression that they were going to retire after the 01-02 season was done; the fact that they were injured all season rather made them a dark horse in SLC; I was surprised to see them skate so well. And, as things turned out, I truly believe Bourne/Kraatz would have taken that bronze from F-P/Margaglio (given Maurizio's slip) had they not made an even bigger mistake at the end of their free dance. So, I for one, was a bit surprised at the overall SLC standings.
Jonny, ITA.
MM, I don't know. There were too many "ifs". FP&M, B&K, and L&A were all essentially at the same level (actually, I'd put D&V in there as well). While much of it was indeed political, a lot still depended on the particular skates. And both FP&M and B&K demostrated that even ice dance can still bring surprises.
Since I really like L&A, I was in a way glad that both Italians and Canadians made blatant errors, thus making the Russians' silver truly well deserved. Otherwise, there would have certainly been talk of unfair judging again.
For my education and this is purely hypothetical. If there was a contest between Lobacheva and Averbuch against Navka and Kosta (sp) what exactly would the judges be looking for to make one a winner over the other. In this example, no one team made a mistake.
I look at all the top dance teams and they all look fine. I just go for the team(s) that I enjoy the most. So I am curious as to what the judges look for.
Joe
I do agree that Torvill & Dean were one of the most amazing dance teams in the history of the sport but there are some pretty good dance teams currently competing. Belbin/Agosto, both D&S teams for example. And then there are some great up and comers; the Kerr's, the young Canadian team of Virtue & Moir (they remind me a little of Silverstein/Pekarek.)
And though I can't completely ignore that there have been some unfortunate judging decisions (whether those some or all of those decisions were created by out and out deal making or just differences in taste can be debated) I don't feel that Barbara or Maurizio's medals in Nice or Vancouver were a gift given to them by Cinquanta. I do agree that they should not have won the bronze in SLC; that should have IMHO gone to Drobiazko & Vanagas.
As for Maurizio not being able to keep up, he isn't as gifted as Barbara but he does manage to do his part and I don't find him completely useless. I do think it is harder for him to perform the steps but in certain programs he does get it done. In other programs he does play the part of supporter. The same goes for the often picked on Roman Kostomarov. Unfortunately both men do get upstaged by their more naturally talented partners.
I think L&A were the most disappointing Russian team I had ever seen. I prefer N&K to them (though both teams are extremely weak comapred to the great Russian teams of the past). L&A skated so much on their flats and their steps weren't as complicated and deep as past teams. I thought their expression was lousy and they weren't very graceful. How it is that this team is so famous in Russia that they have their own tour is beyond me (other than Ilia A being a smart businessman).
Having seen Ilia and Marina as a junior team, I think Ilia was an idiot for dumping her to skate with Irina. Irina is nowhere near the level of skater Marina was/is.
There is nothing else. Except that he is not just a smart businessman, he also has great connections.
Aaahhh, but he was in loveHaving seen Ilia and Marina as a junior team, I think Ilia was an idiot for dumping her to skate with Irina. Irina is nowhere near the level of skater Marina was/is.
Since it's been brought up:
First of all, I've never been a huge fan of Lobacheva/Averbukh either, BUT IMHO in SLC they really skated a terrific OD and an excellent free dance and were more than deserving of their silver medal.
As to Drobiazko/Vanagas -- yes, they were completely undermarked in the free dance in SLC. But IMO the 5th place in the OD was more or less warrranted, and I'm not qualified to judge compulsuries, so can't make much of a call as to whether they were undermarked there or not. Had they been placed 3rd in free dance in SLC as they should have been (as they should have been in Vancouver), it would have only moved them up to 4th, based on the how the rest of the field played out; this would have put F-P/M 4th in the free and B/K 5th in it.
Although Anissina/Peizerat did not dominate ice dancing the way some past leaders did, IMO they were still the favorites for gold in SLC. First of all they contended for gold at very GP final, Europeans or Worlds since the 98/99 season, no other team can say that. In all 3 in 99 it was between them and Kyrlova/Ovsiannikov for gold, they ended up losing all 3 events by only 1 judge; in 2000 they swept everything and were not challenged at all despite Fusar/Poli-
Margalio's OD dance win at Worlds when Gwendal stumbled. In 2001 they skipped the GP final, lost Europeans to Fusar Poli-Margalio with a fall, and then lost yet another 5-4 split at a major event this time to Fusar/Poli-Margalio at Worlds. In 2002 they won Europeans, but lost the GP final, on(yet again)another 4-3 split by one judge in the final free dance to Bourne/Kraatz. Still they convincingly beat Bourne/Kraatz in the first 2 dances at the final, and the flawed format resulted in their loss, winning 2 dances that supposably make up 50% of the scoring by clear margins, and losing the 1 dance that makes up the other 50% by a very narrow margin and losing the gold? Thank goodness for the new system. Additionaly they had beaten Bourne/Kraatz decisively at their other meeting, Trophee de France; they beat Fusar/Poli-Margalio again at Europeans though they moved from 4th at GP final to 2nd at Europeans, a big improvement, and comfortably beat Lobacheva/Averbuhk in their season debut(they took 3rd at Europeans in their 1st event back); as well as winning both their meetings with Drobiazko/Vanagas(3rd at GP final, 4th at Europeans).
So even though they did not dominant ice dancing, they were overall the clear leaders, a team that always had a chance at gold in any major event of the quadrennial, where other top teams no more than 40% of the time did, other being one of the ones trying for the bronze medal. Who was battle for the gold medal was always a revolving door, Anissina/Peizerat vs somebody, and that somebody revolved beween Fusar Poli/Margalio, Bourne/Kraatz, and Lobacheva/Averbuhk(and before them Krylova/Ovsiannikov before her back injury). Thus so while they were not a lock for gold in SLC, not even close since they still lost the gold at atleast half the major events of the quadrennial, they were still the obvious favorites for gold IMO.
Funny, without getting into any judging debates, positive or negative to who benefitted from what, Marina and Gwendal were sure unlucky with the one judge splits that always went against them between 99-2002. How ironic and fitting their biggest title came on finaly winning a one judge split.
While I appreciate all these readings on Dance Teams, I am still in the dark on how a decision is made to make one dance team the winner, second, and third.
If there are no mistakes in the dances of the top competitors, what makes one a winner? Aside from any hanky panky that might be going on, it is a very subjective judging. Am I correct.
Joe
I used to think it was a combination of who was Russian first, and in favor amongst the Russians with their own country more, after that who was most closely assoicated with Russia geographicaly, politicaly, or some other way, as one half of it; and which teams had the most attractive female participents as the other half of it. The emergence of Barbara Fusar Poli as a World Champion(slightly controversial one too)has erased my thoughts on the latter reasoning however.
Oh, that's an awful thing to say!The emergence of Barbara Fusar Poli as a World Champion (slightly controversial one too) has erased my thoughts on the latter reasoning however.
For me, the idea of them or any other skater coming out of retirement just because the Olympics is in their backyard gives me a bad taste in my mouth...I know they have to still make their own Olympic team, but it seems like these days, those that "retire" then "come back for the Olympics" never DON'T make their olympic team (not sure if that was even proper english?!).
If I were ranked, say 2nd or 3rd in my country and the announcement that a formally retired team/skater was coming back just for the Oly, It would infuriate me. And no, I don't mean that in such a way as to say that anyone was or is entitled to that position, but it just smells of unfairness/unsportsmanlike behavior - for lack of a better wording.
If you say you are going to retire, then retire and be done with it. Go skate in cheesy shows, go back to school, get married, have kids, start commentating, start coaching, open a skating school - whatever. Don't come back and change your mind as if to say, "Whoop's, I didn't really mean to retire". If you need a break from the sport to re-evaluate your priorities, then say so - don't say you're retiring. Say your taking the season off to think about what you want next. There is no shame in that.
That's why they call it the "changing of the guard" or "handing the torch off" or "the next generation". And unfortunately, if you lacked basic skating skills to begin with, you will only do one of 3 things (1) embarrass yourself (2) embarrass your country (3) If you happen to actually win or place well and still skate with such lousily technique, you continue to bring more unwanted and more unconstructive attention and criticism to a sport that is already suffering from problems.
just my 2 or 3 cents.
Darby
Barbara and Maurizio have never been one of my faves, nevertheless I wish them well at Torino, the interest in figure skating needs a dire need of boost in this country... anyway I wish even more for Carolina Kostner, now this is a deserving talent for more attention from the compatriots!!
I have no problem with skaters coming out of "retirement". We don't blink at people doing it in other professions, and I see no difference here. The only thing about this that is, indeed, troubling is the risk of those skaters being held up at the expense of the "new generation". If 1994 was any indication, though, that does not seem to be a problem.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks