Ice show (Thunder Bay) loses money

Jaana · Sep 22, 2005

I wonder if this article

http://www.chroniclejournal.com/thunderbay/publish/article_295.php

means that there is a decline in interest towards figure skating in Canada, too? To me it seems likely that a show there definetely needs to include Canadian big names such as Elvis Stojko and especially Kurt Browning to become successful? The ticket price mentioned in the article does not seem to have been expensive, in my opinion.

SusanBeth · Sep 23, 2005

I wonder about the people who could have been helped with the money they lost. :eek:

I would think twice about donating to that organization. The single ticket price isn't bad until you start adding up what it would cost for a family to go. That's a lot of money for a few hours entertainment. With the economy being as so bad ( at least in the US) and likely to get worse, renting a movie and making popcorn is the more practical choice.

Mathman · Sep 23, 2005

I don't think the problem was lack of Canadian big names. They had Brian Orser, Jennifer Robinson and Sale and Pelletier, along with Alexei Yagudin, who is also very popular in Canada.

I wonder how much the "regular performance fees" are that these skaters can command for shows like this. Last year Belbin and Agosto organized a charity show to benefit the victims of the tsunami in Indonesia. All of the skaters volunteered their time without pay, local businesses contributed services (including free use of the arena), so they made 100% profit (about $20,000). The tickets were $20 apiece, as I recall. Johnny Weir, Orcher and Lucash, Inoue and Baldwin, Wing and Lowe, Evan Lysacek, Andre Grazev, Amber Corwin, and Alissa Czisny were among the performers.

Mathman

dlkksk8fan · Sep 23, 2005

I would think the "Big Name" skaters would donate their fees instead of take $$.

curious · Sep 23, 2005

I don't know if the sport will survive after the 2006 olys :biggrin:

Ladskater · Sep 24, 2005

Jaana said:
I wonder if this article

http://www.chroniclejournal.com/thunderbay/publish/article_295.php

means that there is a decline in interest towards figure skating in Canada, too? To me it seems likely that a show there definetely needs to include Canadian big names such as Elvis Stojko and especially Kurt Browning to become successful? The ticket price mentioned in the article does not seem to have been expensive, in my opinion.

One Ice show losing money does not mean Figure Skating in Canada is headed towards it's demise. It sounds to me like the show was not advertised enough. Could be a promotional problem.

Look at the Terry Fox Run - just his name alone draws thousands accross Canada and this year was the 25th anniversary of his initial run. It was a cause for celebration from coast-to-coast.

Usually figure skating shows draw big crowds here, but it's still early in the season for skating. People are just putting away their camping gear!!!

It's too bad as this was a charity show, but I am sure there will be other fund raisers.

I don't think there is any cause for worry about the state of figure skating in Canada. As long as there are ice rinks and skates available, there will be figure skaters.

Jaana · Sep 24, 2005

Mathman said:
I don't think the problem was lack of Canadian big names. They had Brian Orser, Jennifer Robinson and Sale and Pelletier, along with Alexei Yagudin, who is also very popular in Canada.
Mathman

Yeah, but they still lacked the really big Canadian names: Browning and Stojko. Pairs skating may be popular, but during many years I definetely have gotten the impression that Canadian male singles skaters, and especially Browning and Stojko, are the most popular ones. And if either of them is not in a show in Canada.... Generally speaking there might be a lot of hype on skating forums about some foreign skaters, but that does not necessarily mean that they in reality sell tickets to the big Canadian general audiences so much in shows where the really big Canadian names would be lacking.

As far as I understood, in this Thunder Bay show were 1400 empty seats in an arena of 3900 seats on Monday show, with the organizers expecting to sell out all those seats, and perhaps sell enough tickets to warrant a second show Tuesday night.

The ticket prices were lower than those for a Canadian SOI show, weren´t they?

Sanray mentions here
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28408&page=1

that she attends every skating show in Thunder Bay and usually tickets sell out within days. Tickets for this charity show were on sale for months.

Sk8harvest · Sep 24, 2005

They said they sold 2500 seats at 49.50 each, that is a total of 123,750 which was "far short of the fundraiser’s break-even point." The venue had a total of 3900 seats, which would have generated 193,050, a difference of 69,300. If the amount sold was far short of breaking even, I wonder how much really would have been available to donate to charity if they had sold out. I have no idea how much of a bite overhead normally takes out of a fundraising event, so perhaps this is normal, what with appearance fees, renting the venue, hiring event staff and such, but these numbers were still surprising to me.

Julie O · Sep 24, 2005

I was at the show in Thunder Bay, and I can report here that the actual box office at the arena was difficult to deal with, especially calling in from the US. There were at least five of us who had traveled long distances to see the show, myself from Detroit, one each from California and Boston, and one each from Japan and Taiwan! Yes, true! We are avid Alexei fans, for sure. :laugh:

In this case, though, I would rather have dealt with the hated Ticketmaster LOL. Calling the box office, which I was forced to do at least three times, you could get yourself into a loop, there were long holds, and seat information was not really helpful. All of our group of five had complaints about it. This alone could have discouraged fans who would otherwise have traveled from, say, moderate distances in Ontario or Minnesota.

The actual seating capacity was 3400, not 3900. In addition to the ticket prices, which were not all $49.50, the first 120 show attendees to purchase a signed poster were admitted into the post-show reception, which at $15 was incredibly cheap. That would have given them $1800 more, if the food and beverages at the reception had been donated, but I don't have any info on this.

It made me sad to read about the loss. I and my friends spent several hundred dollars each to travel and attend the show, and it was a unique experience. If anyone wants to read my review of the show, here's a link:

http://aymanor.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1194#post1194post1194

Julie

Pixie Cut · Sep 24, 2005

dlkksk8fan said:
I would think the "Big Name" skaters would donate their fees instead of take $$.

You must surely be kidding. In their defense, this is how they earn their livings. But sometimes the appearance fees are the death knells. :no:

SkateFan4Life · Sep 24, 2005

Pixie Cut said:
You must surely be kidding. In their defense, this is how they earn their livings. But sometimes the appearance fees are the death knells. :no:

IMHO, the skaters should certainly be paid for their professional show appearances, tours, and other contractural assignments. This is their living, and let's face it, they won't be out in the rink skating professionally for the big bucks when they're in their 50s and 60s. :biggrin:

However, this was a charity event. These "big name skaters" could certainly turn over their appearance fees for such an event. Many of us give very generously to various charitable organizations - especially in the wake of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita - and although we aren't in the position to give, say,
$10,000, our gifts are needed. I have no idea what sort of appearance fees the top skaters receive, but I would suspect that they are substantial, and even if the skaters donated HALF of their fees, that would be a sizeable donation.

IMHO, $49.50 is too high a ticket price. A family of four would easily spend over
$250.00 for the seats, parking, posters, programs, and food. Let's have a little taste of reality, please.

bloozywoozy · Sep 24, 2005

Very valid points by everyone. Its really too bad they couldn't make the profit they hoped to. :no:

Question: If skaters/performers were to donate their fee (or a portion of their fee), can you imagine just how many charities would be expecting/demanding "freebies". Like someone pointed out, skaters have bills and costs to live, as well as saving up for that time when they are no longer skating. Who will be giving them freebies then? lol

soogar · Sep 24, 2005

:scratch: I thought the whole point of charity was freebies to maximize the amount of the donation.

Tonichelle · Sep 24, 2005

Jaana said:
Yeah, but they still lacked the really big Canadian names: Browning and Stojko.

I'm sorry, but I think Sale and Pelletier and Brian Orser are pretty big names for Canada as well. I may not be Canadian, but they're hardly unknown there...

but maybe I'm completely insane... I didn't realize the Stojko or Browning really held top billing out of all the stars

(not that I'm complaining if Browning trully is king on Canadian ice :love:

)

Pixie Cut · Sep 24, 2005

soogar said:
:scratch: I thought the whole point of charity was freebies to maximize the amount of the donation.

But these are not movie stars who make millions of dollars per film and can make charity appearances for free. Even then, those movie stars receive first class air fare and deluxe accommodations for their charity appearances.

Skaters skate for a living and a charity show is work for them (unless it's a personal cause). But some of them have extremely high fees and that's what keeps profits down at some events.

bloozywoozy · Sep 24, 2005

soogar said:
:scratch: I thought the whole point of charity was freebies to maximize the amount of the donation.

Yes, there's that. There is also the fact that these big skating stars are chosing to give lil ole Thunder Bay their time, name etc so the charity can promote it as a "big" /professional deal (as opposed to locals performing), and thereby drawing in more ppl at a higher ticket price.

Well, that was the "plan" anyway ;p It obviously didn't work out for Thunder Bay, thats unfortunate. If so many ppl had trouble/complaints, you have to look to (blame?) the ppl putting it on,not the skaters who show up to practice together and perform. They can't donate their free services (what about the cost of air fare, hotel, all their practice time separate and together, the possibility that they had to turn down a "paying gig" to perform for free somewhere else etc) to every charity who wants it.

I have heard/read of many celebrities donating to a charity by "giving their name" to a charity but still getting paid for their psa/appearances etc. (and they make waaaay more that skaters do, lol!! But celebritites, like anyone, deserve to have a choice to who they wish to donate their time to, their money, their name, etc.

But hey, I'm just a fence sitter here

lol I can see all points. I'm just throwing out some points that haven't been mentioned ( hence the "question" part

KwanFan1212 · Sep 24, 2005

IMHO, $49.50 is too high a ticket price. A family of four would easily spend over $250.00 for the seats, parking, posters, programs, and food. Let's have a little taste of reality, please.

You think that is expensive?! That sounds like a steal to me for who all you got to see at this show. That's Canadian money for the prices too! I know I'd have gone in a heartbeat if I lived up closer to Thunder Bay and this show sounds like it suffered more from poor planning/marketing and difficulties with the box office than anything. And just as an FYI, COI and SOI charge around that just for the CHEAP seats at their shows every year so the price listed above doesn't sound unreasonable at all to me. :eek:

hwell:

dlkksk8fan · Sep 25, 2005

You must surely be kidding. In their defense, this is how they earn their livings. But sometimes the appearance fees are the death knells.

Pixie Cut- I wasn't kidding.

IMHO, the skaters should certainly be paid for their professional show appearances, tours, and other contractural assignments. This is their living, and let's face it, they won't be out in the rink skating professionally for the big bucks when they're in their 50s and 60s.

However, this was a charity event. These "big name skaters" could certainly turn over their appearance fees for such an event.

SkateFan4Life- I couldn't have said it any better.

SkateFan4Life · Sep 25, 2005

bloozywoozy said:
Very valid points by everyone. Its really too bad they couldn't make the profit they hoped to. :no:

Question: If skaters/performers were to donate their fee (or a portion of their fee), can you imagine just how many charities would be expecting/demanding "freebies". Like someone pointed out, skaters have bills and costs to live, as well as saving up for that time when they are no longer skating. Who will be giving them freebies then? lol

Oh, please. Whenever you give a charity to ONE organization, you immediately are put on mailing lists that are sold throughout the planet to every conceivable other charity organization. I'm sure many of you receive dozens and dozens of charity appeal letters every week, as I do, from everything from the American Red Cross to Save the Whales. We simply have to prioritize our concerns and interests and give to the charities of our choosing. I certainly have no compulsion of saying "no" by not sending a check. It's my money, and although I believe I am very generous, I have my limits. I have biils to pay.

Figure skaters, too, have just as much right to decide who to skate for gratis, if they chose to do so. If they perform for a breast cancer research fundraiser, for example, and a dozen other organizations ask them to appear "for free", they can just say, very nicely, "I'm so sorry, but my schedule doesn't allow me to make this appearance." Or they can just tell the organization, through their publicist, that they skate for free for only x, y, and z organizations, period. If that bothers those organizations, well, that's the way it goes.

Ice show (Thunder Bay) loses money

Jaana

SusanBeth

Mathman

dlkksk8fan

curious

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~

Jaana

Sk8harvest

Julie O

Pixie Cut

SkateFan4Life

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bloozywoozy

soogar

Tonichelle

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Pixie Cut

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