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Thread: 2005 Nationals on ESPN last evening - Sasha Cohen's long program

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by millie
    The commentators talk from both sides of their mouth. On one side they say she is not smiling and has a smile pasted on and then they say that she should focus and not be distracted. When the skaters are on the ice trying to concentrate on their next move, I don't think that smiling is the number one thing on their mind. So what if they have a pasted smile on their face, I don't think that the judges gives them marks for pasted on smiles or real smiles. I'm glad that the commentators are not the judges. If she was on the ice with a grin from ear to ear all the time, then they would say that she was to confident and she fell because she wasn't focusing.

    Happy skating.

    Yes...If a skater is focused and determined she tends to have that "serious" look. Have you seen the skaters waiting in the wings, ready to take the ice? How many of them do you see smiling? They all look like serial killers back there, lol.

    Take someone who is known for emotional appeal. Kwan is an easy example. Yet, you see her "business" face when she is in "deep concentration". She only lightens up once she enters "the zone". The "zone" is the name I give to the time when you are performing and you no longer have to "think through" the process- it just happens naturally, you enjoy the moment, and usually you make no mistakes during this time. And usually you become very calm and relaxed as well, which allows you to smile and be happy. This is what I think happens to Kwan when she breaks out with these "emotional moments" of hers.

    It happened to Irina during worlds 05, Arakawa during worlds 04, Hughes during olys 02. But other than this, you usually get the "business face". And (primarily) for this reason, I believe this is why Cohen comes across as flat. When she smiles, you don't feel it, typically because she just made a mistake. It's like you know she can't be happy right now. She just messed it up! I know I wouldn't be happy, no matter what my face looked like.

    That said, I do think that she has been fighting an uphill battle and is slowly winning it and is content (if not pleased) with her progress so far. As for the "smile" during her FS, I do think it was "choreographed". You can always put on a smile for the camera.

    But she wants to win- and if she wants that performance of a lifetime she'll have to find, and get into, "the zone". Only then will we see a real genuine smile from her.

    In my opionion, she did not develop technically or artistically last year. Some of this I believe stems from her injury, and some of it from having programs which were not as well choreographed (even Wagner's stripped down version of "Swan Lake" had more choreography than that "Nutcracker" LP last year). Technically and artistically she has dwindled since leaving Tarasova.
    I also would argue this point. Kwan got (and still gets) a lot of flack for stagnating (which would make sense, since she did not used to do this). Cohen, I would say, really hasn't done much more in this regard. I would say with her it's more about self-improvement than improvement in general. I forgot how she skated four years ago but I bet she is totally different now. But it's more of a style thing. She hasn't really been pushing forward in the technical or artistic sense, although her setbacks have arguably prevented or discouraged her from doing so. Instead, she works on trying to make it so that she can complete a routine mistake-free. She has stagnated over the past couple of years, but if the off-season "reports" hold some water, we could see some noticeable improvement this year and (if she stays) next year.

    JMO.

  2. #17
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    My Opinon

    I watched the ESPN repeat also. Sasha is never boring,(mesmerizing would be more like it) always exquisite and in a class by herself. No, she's not flawless, but give me a flawed Sasha over just about anyone else (except Michelle). For her critics all I can say is you can skate like her in your dreams if your lucky.

  3. #18
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    not to take the focus off sasha in the middle of a sasha thread...when I saw sasha (and others fall) I immeidately thought of the way the the "air" went out of the program...not that Sasha didn't finish off the skate. It just seems to me that when skaters use BIG music and they miss their tricks, the music can actually overtake the rest of the program and make what small mistakes that are made seem bigger than they are.

    I guess what I'm getting at is that it seems to me that "Bravura music" can be a detriment if you don't pull it all off. Sasha tends to skate to "Big" music and I think when everything isn't spot on, it actually hinders her after any mistake. I also believe that Sasha's superior abilities and form make it look just that much worse when she does make even the slightest of mistakes. Hopefully this year we'll get to see a healthy group of competitors and most placements will be defined by comparing great programs rather than by who makes no/the leas mistakes.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyla2
    I watched the ESPN repeat also. Sasha is never boring,(mesmerizing would be more like it) always exquisite and in a class by herself. No, she's not flawless, but give me a flawed Sasha over just about anyone else (except Michelle). For her critics all I can say is you can skate like her in your dreams if your lucky.
    It's your opinion all right- a lot of other people dig Cohen as well. Otherwise she wouldn't have so many fans.

    But, like Kwan, I just don't feel anything from her. She's like a weird (ok, unique may be a better word) looking block of ice- catches (my) eye at first, but just leaves (me) feeling cold. I suppose the "exquisiteness" comes from her flexibility. Yes it's amazing but not mesmerizing (if that makes sense). I don't necessarily call stretching yourself out, fake-smiling, falling, and being conservative "mesmerizing" but that's just me. Obviously this is subjective so other people do think differently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8m8
    not to take the focus off sasha in the middle of a sasha thread...when I saw sasha (and others fall) I immeidately thought of the way the the "air" went out of the program...not that Sasha didn't finish off the skate. It just seems to me that when skaters use BIG music and they miss their tricks, the music can actually overtake the rest of the program and make what small mistakes that are made seem bigger than they are.

    I guess what I'm getting at is that it seems to me that "Bravura music" can be a detriment if you don't pull it all off. Sasha tends to skate to "Big" music and I think when everything isn't spot on, it actually hinders her after any mistake. I also believe that Sasha's superior abilities and form make it look just that much worse when she does make even the slightest of mistakes. Hopefully this year we'll get to see a healthy group of competitors and most placements will be defined by comparing great programs rather than by who makes no/the leas mistakes.
    Yes, she does, and can't pull it off (IMO!). She's been told she's talented, etc, etc, and this allows her to coast along. In a way, when this happens, you start to get full of yourself. She hasn't been able to stand out (with the exception of her extreme positions) from everyone else with one big piece. But as I said before this may change.

    The ONE time I really saw her let go and actually enjoyed watching her was during her Worlds 05 exhibition program. Now THERE she looked like she was actually having some fun.

  6. #21
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    Sasha skated both long and short at nationals a lot better than at worlds last year. It's not deniable that she has many things that her competitiors do not have. Flexibilty does not necessarily produce beautiful positions for many skaters. But Sasha can use her flexibility to make remarkable results.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesslily
    Sasha skated both long and short at nationals a lot better than at worlds last year. It's not deniable that she has many things that her competitiors do not have. Flexibilty does not necessarily produce beautiful positions for many skaters. But Sasha can use her flexibility to make remarkable results.
    AMEN. IMO, a new season is about to begin with a fresh slate for all of the skaters. I wish Sasha and many others the very best!! May they all stay on their feet, and give us fans a glorious season to watch.

    DG

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyla2
    I For her critics all I can say is you can skate like her in your dreams if your lucky.
    Others can't skate like her, but Cohen can't do some of the things others can do. Yeah, can Cohen make a vaccine for the avian flu?? Can Cohen figure out the consequence of overactivation of the NMDA receptors and how that relates to Alzheimers??
    Last edited by gezando; 09-28-2005 at 11:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    I

    She was not into Nutcracker and I don't blame her. That music is extremely schmaltzy and Sasha was just not getting into the schmaltz. Joe
    Interesting, didn't you mention in another thread that skating single to Pas de
    deux is oh so difficult??? Now you are saying it is just schmaltz music. Schmaltzy or not, if Cohen chose the music, then she should try her best to interpret it, or like you said skate the "essence" of the piece. Actually PIT's music is probably one of the easiest to pretend to skate to, even though he is not the greatest composer in history, he had an amazing gift of melody / tunefulnes. His music is easy to the ears including the judges ears. Among Tchaikovsky pieces skated last year, Pas de Deux is easier to interpret than Romeo and Juliet so IMO at least Arakawa was willing to try a piece that is more challenging.
    Last edited by gezando; 09-28-2005 at 11:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gezando
    . Yeah, can Cohen make a vaccine for the avian flu??
    Can you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by soogar
    Can you?
    What any poster do is not relevant here. I know here at GS people love to post their CVs
    Most posters here do not skate period, so what if they can't do what Cohen does. I was just trying to follow kyla's reasoning, so in that context I brought up the fact that Cohen can not do things others do well either
    Last edited by gezando; 09-28-2005 at 11:20 PM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gezando
    What I can do is not relevant here.
    And likewise, whether Cohen can make a vaccine for Avian flu isn't either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog
    And likewise, whether Cohen can make a vaccine for Avian flu isn't either.
    Oh but it is relevant in the context of making a point, because kyla made the statement that people can not be critics of Cohen's skating because they can not skate like her. Yeah Reddog you can't be a critic of Michelle's skating because you can't skate like her
    Last edited by gezando; 09-28-2005 at 11:37 PM.

  14. #29
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    people can not be critics of Cohen's skating because they can not skate like her.
    Yeah...I must say Gezando that you fit this very description.

    (Technically I could, too. So can half this forum.)

    Yeah Reddog you can't be a critic of Michelle's skating because you can't skate like her
    if this statement actually held water, skating forums wouldn't exist
    Last edited by R.D.; 09-28-2005 at 11:45 PM.

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    ...but come on. The fact that this is even an issue is laughable. look- only about 5 people can skate like Cohen or Kwan, and they sure as hell don't post here.

    Unless you're trying to tell me that you're irina or something.

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