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Thread: 2005 Nationals on ESPN last evening - Sasha Cohen's long program

  1. #46
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gezando
    As far as pas de deux being a sensual piece of music, JMO, it is not really that sensual, it is melodic and tuneful , easy to the judges ears. Romeo and Juliet overture is a lot more sensual in an intense hormonal way Just listen to the sighing theme leading to the hormonal love theme. Robert Greenberg even used the O word for R and J's love theme.
    By sensual, I meant that the ballerina was finding the consort interesting, lol.

    PIT's 3 children's ballets were not his favorite compositions I am sure Petipa hounded him for various types of tempos which he obliged reluctantly. He needed the money. But the 4th act of Swan Lake PIT went all out on making it a symphony.

    Prokofiev's R&J balcony scene, very lyrical and very sensuous. Has anyone ever tried that? I would not want to see that as a single. It is a pas de deux.

    I believe Sasha likes pretty melodies or spanish rythyms to skate to. So be it.

    Joe

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    By sensual, I meant that the ballerina was finding the consort interesting, lol.
    Nice to know let us know what you meant

    PIT's 3 children's ballets were not his favorite compositions I am sure Petipa hounded him for various types of tempos which he obliged reluctantly. He needed the money. But the 4th act of Swan Lake PIT went all out on making it a symphony.
    He needed the money. I am kind of tired of PIT's music, the 3 ballets are top of my ignore list, for now I believe you that SL act four has nice orchestration, although I watched SL earlier this year, and there is nothing about SL act four that jumps out. So far my take on the problem with PIT's music in general is that he was exceedingly good with tunes, but everything else was just dutiful.

    Prokofiev's R and J ..... not want to see that as a single. It is a pas de deux.
    I wanna to see if a single skater or dancer try to handle Le Sacre, no matter how many dancers the original choreographer staged

    I believe Sasha likes pretty melodies or spanish rythyms to skate to. So be it.

    Joe
    Pretty melodies in the most superifical skin deep way. Cohen is also skating to DE for the fourth time, Russian equivalent to row row row your boat. Maybe her (relatively lack of) music interpretative skill only allows her to do these pieces.
    Last edited by gezando; 09-29-2005 at 05:22 PM.

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    Oh For Goodness Sakes......

    Red Dog and Gezando, you two are hilarious. Gezando, as always, you miss my point. Look, whether you like Sasha or not, take a real close look at what she does on the ice when she is in her zone (maybe not "perfect" zone). She is magnificent. So is Michelle when she is in her zone. They are untouchable. One transports you emotionally and commands the ice unlike any other skater who has ever skated, and the other has a balletic style that is breathtaking and completely unique in the history of figure skating. I respect them both tremendously and I am very grateful that I have lived long enough to see them. I am also grateful that I have seen a sick Irina skate her heart out and perform at a technical level that hasn't been seen in a long time in women's skating. I could go on, but I won't bore you all because I have nothing bad to say about any of them right now.

  4. #49
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    Look, whether you like Sasha or not, take a real close look at what she does on the ice when she is in her zone (maybe not "perfect" zone). She is magnificent. So is Michelle when she is in her zone. They are untouchable. One transports you emotionally and commands the ice unlike any other skater who has ever skated, and the other has a balletic style that is breathtaking and completely unique in the history of figure skating.
    MK is something once she finds "the zone".

    But I don't think Cohen has found "the zone" yet. She did have one relatively good performance- 2004 worlds SP- which I thought was good but not great. I have not once seen her "let go" during one of her performances. If someone can find one please show it to me.

    Both skaters have unique "features" about them- yes. One can convey emotional feelings to a lot of people, and one has a "balletic style" as you say, and that also interests a certain group of people. They are both great at what they do. They just don't move me like they've done so many other people. What I think doesn't take away from the fact that they're good at what they do.

    JMO.

  5. #50
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    Whether or not Sasha was in or out of "the zone" at the 2005 Nationals, I thought she was was a joy to watch, and seeing the replay of her long program was a delight. As I wrote initially, I have never seen her skate with such joy and freedom, as in the past, she always seemed tense and more afraid of making a mistake than going out there and just skating a great program.

    We may see some wonderful things from Sasha in the upcoming Olympic season. This may be her golden year. Good luck, Sasha!

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan4Life
    Whether or not Sasha was in or out of "the zone" at the 2005 Nationals, I thought she was was a joy to watch, and seeing the replay of her long program was a delight. As I wrote initially, I have never seen her skate with such joy and freedom, as in the past, she always seemed tense and more afraid of making a mistake than going out there and just skating a great program.
    I would have to re-watch Cohen's program to know whether or not to agree with this, but from what I remember, she DID seem to fight through it. She was just in a "transition" mode and for someone in such a mode I thought she did a respectable job.

    We may see some wonderful things from Sasha in the upcoming Olympic season. This may be her golden year. Good luck, Sasha!
    Let's cross our fingers and hope for this from ALL the skaters.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyla2
    One transports you emotionally and commands the ice unlike any other skater who has ever skated, and the other has a balletic style that is breathtaking and completely unique in the history of figure skating. I respect them both tremendously and I am very grateful that I have lived long enough to see them.
    Kyla - If you were older than me you would have seen a skater called Belita in several ice skating movies, which unfortunatley never made it to tape. Belita was the first super-flexible skater with spirals in the 180 degree position, and as much as she was acrobatic, she was also most ballet-like. In fact at that time most of the ladies were all balletic like. It was the time to show the public that Henie's kitchy Koo could be done differently and more in psuedo artistry.

    Check out Belita's movies. The one I liked the best was called Suspense, I think. It is a film noir with Belita split jumping through sabre knives, and the Mob ganging up on her. Wild movie. Not your sweet little girl movie.

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyla2
    Gezando, as always, you miss my point.
    As always your point is filled with worship like gush, but then you admit to being an uber fan.

    take a real close look at what she (Cohen) does on the ice when she is in her zone (maybe not "perfect" zone). She is magnificent... the other (Cohen) has a balletic style that is breathtaking and completely unique in the history of figure skating.
    I have seen Cohen up close in live competitions a few times. I haven't seen her in a zone yet. My speculation is , even if she is in a zone, that contributes to her technical marks, Artistically, she lacks musical versatility, so being in a zone does not help much there. If she is magnificient to you, then worhsip and enjoy, but going on and on about "critics can only skate like her in their dreams" Guess what, your dream is another's nightmare. From watching Cohen live and close, IMO her skating is superficially pretty that is skin deep. In general, I do not consider artists whose output is mostly superfically pretty as impressive, that includes PIT.

    You may think Cohen has a balletic style, I think she has a gymnastic style. Anyway the rule book does not say balletic style should be rewarded with more points. If I want to watch ballet, I know where to buy tix.
    Last edited by gezando; 09-30-2005 at 01:42 PM.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan4Life
    Whether or not Sasha was in or out of "the zone" at the 2005 Nationals, I thought she was was a joy to watch, and seeing the replay of her long program was a delight. As I wrote initially, I have never seen her skate with such joy and freedom, as in the past, she always seemed tense and more afraid of making a mistake than going out there and just skating a great program.
    Actually the only time when Cohen skated with joy IMO was her 2000 national sp, unfortunately JMO that is her hightest achievement so far in terms of being joyful, free, and artistic. Then she skated her worst in the lp of the same competition, and butchered Mendelssohn's VC.

  10. #55
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    2000 nationals was Sasha's first year competing as Senior. It's very exciting and fresh for her. She just mastered all the triples and couldn't wait to show her skating ability. Good skating is 50% from technique and 50% from happy mind.

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    More Thoughts......

    Joe, well I'm 52 but I sure haven't seen or even heard of Belita. I will have to look around for the movie. Thanks for the tip.

    Gezando, I don't gush. I do say what I think and I mean what I say. Sasha is very special and so is Michelle but in very different ways. You are certainly entitled to think differently, but I suspect I will ultimately have skating history/historians on my side. I believe both Michelle and Sasha will surprise us this year with very solid programs and a determination to stay upright on the ice. I think that holds true for Shizuka as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyla2
    Gezando, I don't gush. I do say what I think and I mean what I say.
    You admit to being an uber fan, of course when you gush, it is part of the job description

    Sasha is very special and so is Michelle but in very different ways. You are certainly entitled to think differently,
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just don't attack people who think differently. (quoting kyla "In my line of work you have FOI, indicative of an illness", or "I will gladly bet your life...")

    I suspect I will ultimately have skating history/historians on my side..... Sasha will surprise us this year with very solid programs and a determination to stay upright on the ice
    A bit of bragging from fans is normal with any sports. My favorite is so special, she will ..........
    Last edited by gezando; 10-01-2005 at 05:25 PM.

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    gezando

    Please tell me, what's it like to live in your world where everything has a negative spin and if something positive is said about someone you don't particularly admire, you call it being an "uber fan" or "trash talking"? You personalize everything, which is unnecessary. How about a conversation someday where you don't attack or label people (it isn't just me either, i see you do it to other posters).

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    negative . and attack..
    I believe when you post your cv here to put others down by saying they have a mental illness that is one of the most negative thing I have ever read, and that is an attack., IMO when you said, " I would happily bet your life on just about anything......" (Kyla do you deny making that statement?) That too is one of the most negative thing I have ever read. And how is it like to live in your world, making a statement "I will bet your life on ...." considering your line of work?? i believe you are the one who is personalizing your attack, by posting your resume.


    Quote Originally Posted by kyla2
    call it being an "uber fan"
    Actually, you are the one who first call others as uber fans when they disagree with you that Cohen is the most exquiste skater. Do you deny ever making this following accusation " I recognize a few of you from the other forum as beyond Uber fans. .... Talk about your Uber fans. "

    I believe you identified yourself as an uber fan, so I am just agreeing with you.

    or "trash talking"?
    Well trash talking is from me, but trash talking is a common practice among sports fan, there is nothing negative about it. Trash talking means when fans are bragging about "my favorite can beat all the rest of the field, or my favorite is the most exquisite skater, etc. And you are the one who is bragging that your favorite is the most exquisite skater, etc Since you are the one who is bragging that your favorite as the most special, and you are the one who was calling everyone as an uber fan when they disagreed with you, I interpret that as trash talking. But if you are sensitive about the term trash talk, I have changed it to bragging.
    Last edited by gezando; 10-01-2005 at 06:27 PM.

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    Gezando

    Well, I can see that you remember everything I have ever written and deliberately take it out of context, and give every word and every sentence I have ever written its most negative connotation. That speaks volumes about you. For myself, I don't remember anything you have ever said on this site.

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