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Thread: TT may spend summer's at MK's rink

  1. #31
    On Edge Piel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curious
    and of course michell did not have an advantage in salt lake where she placed first in the sp with erros(that could only happen in the states) over a much better skate by Irina or the 2003 worlds in washington huh? Some people get very selective in their criticism of non fave skaters
    If this was true why didn't Kwan end up with the silver over Irina? Do the judges just cheat to benefit Kwan part of the time or do people get selective in their memory of what really went on ?

  2. #32
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    and of course michell did not have an advantage in salt lake where she placed first in the sp with erros(that could only happen in the states) over a much better skate by Irina or the 2003 worlds in washington huh? Some people get very selective in their criticism of non fave skaters
    And Irina didn't have the advantage of winning with a sloppy, 4 triple skate over Kwan and Hughes at the 2002 GPF? Both Kwan and Irina have received some "gifts" in their careers, but it isn't like one has been undeservedly rewarded far more than the other. It happens in skating. LOL...and how was Gracefulswan being "selective" in her criticism of Slutskaya? She simply said she didn't like her style and hoped the Olympic Gold would go to Kwan or Cohen. That is an opinion....plain and simple. There are no bashes or instances of selective criticism to be found in these statements.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by VINLUVSKWAN
    "and of course michell did not have an advantage in salt lake where she placed first in the sp with erros(that could only happen in the states) over a much better skate by Irina or the 2003 worlds in washington huh? Some people get very selective in their criticism of non fave skaters"
    And on the majority of judges scoresheets Irina won the technical mark. Michelle's error on the flip did not mar the presentation of the program, which is where she ultimately squeaked by Irina in the SP. Even in the LP, Kwan scored better than Irina in the presentation marks. Irina lost gold in SLC due to the Italian judge placing her fourth - the difference: the presentation mark, where he gave the edge to Sasha. As much as people talk about the "upset" in SLC, when you really look at the scores, it really all comes down to one ordinal coming between Hughes, Kwan, and Slutskaya getting the gold.

  4. #34
    Down With It
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    As far as I'm concerned, the past is in the past. Sarah won gold, Irina won silver, and MK got bronze. Now we have another Olys to look forward to, scandals waiting to unveil themselves, and another set of results to pick apart ad nauseum for the next four years. Bring it on!

  5. #35
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millie
    That's beside the point, somebody should still inform PETA about that coat.
    Last time I checked, fur was still legal. If that has changed, someone really needs to tell my closet about it...

  6. #36
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VINLUVSKWAN
    Under CoP, Sasha would have won the SP at 2002 SLC Olys.
    SP: 1. Cohen 2. Slutskaya 3. Kwan 4. Hughes
    LP: 1. Hughes 2. Slutskaya 3. Cohen (her 3z/3toe would have been downgraded to a 3z/2t) 4. Kwan
    To me, it's kind of hard to say because of the Program Component Scores.. Under the ordinal system all nine judges gave Michelle 5.9 in presentation in the short program, to 5.7s and 5.8s for Sasha. Presumably these same judges would have given Michelle similarly high PCSs if the program had been judged under the CoP.

    In the long, two judges ranked Sarah fourth and one judge ranked Irina fourth. I don't think these judges would have been any better impressed if they had been using the NJS.

    MM

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by millie
    In other words, "MONEY TALKS". It means that the more money that you have, you can hire the big guns(or people who think that they are big guns) I think that TT would sell her soul for a dollar or two and not think twice about it.
    Seriously, accusing her of selling her soul??? Where does this come from. Lately almost all of Cohen's ex coaches are being dissed by the ubers for ????

    arrogant and self-righteous woman
    If she is arrogant, she has the CV to back it up. She took on Arakawa and got herself a world gold medalist within weeks

    ,
    talk about stoned face people.
    TT is not stoned face, just look at her expression after Cohen splashed on her triple flip at the sp of world 2003

    When she is in the U.S. again somebody should call PETA anget that fur coat from her.
    Come on shouldn't the PETA people be notifiied about people who e.g. endorse beef instead. Talk about BSE and dioxin
    Last edited by gezando; 09-29-2005 at 06:00 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by curious
    and of course michell did not have an advantage in salt lake where she placed first in the sp with erros(that could only happen in the states) over a much better skate by Irina or the 2003 worlds in washington huh? Some people get very selective in their criticism of non fave skaters
    Actually according to some people who were there, Michelle's sp was much better presented that Irina's. I don't think judging error only happens in US, you are too selective in this criticism. Just review your 2001 NHK tapes about Irina's win over Maria

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracefulswan
    now we have a THREE way battle for the gold... unlike so many other olympics where there were 2 clear front-runners.
    I would say it's FOUR way battle for the gold: IS, SA, MK and SC. Throw in a lot dark horses as medal contenders: Carolina, Fummie, Ando, etc.

  10. #40
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curious
    and of course michell did not have an advantage in salt lake where she placed first in the sp with erros(that could only happen in the states) over a much better skate by Irina or the 2003 worlds in washington huh? Some people get very selective in their criticism of non fave skaters
    What mistakes did Kwan make in the SP in SLC?

    Ant

  11. #41
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VINLUVSKWAN
    "and of course michell did not have an advantage in salt lake where she placed first in the sp with erros(that could only happen in the states) over a much better skate by Irina or the 2003 worlds in washington huh? Some people get very selective in their criticism of non fave skaters"

    Under CoP, Sasha would have won the SP at 2002 SLC Olys.
    SP: 1. Cohen 2. Slutskaya 3. Kwan 4. Hughes
    LP: 1. Hughes 2. Slutskaya 3. Cohen (her 3z/3toe would have been downgraded to a 3z/2t) 4. Kwan

    So the medal result could have been:
    1. Slutskaya 2. Kwan 3. Cohen

    But this all belongs in the past.
    What???? How on earth can you say who would have won what under a system that wasn't even implemented yet? Which version of CoP - the one with or without level 4s? What a ridiculous statement!

    Ant

  12. #42
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    Quote=Antmanb: “What mistakes did Kwan make in the SP in SLC?“

    One good thing to come out of the New Judging System is that in the future we will be able to consult those lovely pdf spreadsheets that the ISU provides us with to answer questions like this. ( “Aha! She got a -1 GOE on her triple flip! That’s why she lost!”)

    Looking at the judges’ marks for the Salt Lake City short program, in the presentation scores 8 judges put Michelle first, versus Irina, with 1 tie (the Finish judge, for the interest of us conspiracy theorists, LOL. Both the Russian and the Byrorussian judges went with Michelle in presentation, but not overall.).

    In the technical score, 6 judges favored Irina, 1 favored Michelle (the Slovakian judge), with 2 ties.

    This translated into a 5-4 split in favor of Michelle.

    (Block judging anyone? Three “Western” judges – Germany, Italy and U.S.A. – put Sasha ahead of Irina. This is the same Italian judge that put Irina fourth in the free skate. I guess he didn’t like her much.)

    Afterwards, Irina said that at first she accepted the results of the short program without comment, because she hadn’t seen Michelle skate. But later when she saw the tapes, she felt that on the technical side, she had beaten Michelle on every required element except the spiral and so was disappointed to have been ranked second.

    I will be quite interested to see if this sort of thing will happen under the NJS. Will we see contests where one skater wracks up the points on the tech side, only to be overtaken by superior grace and artistry? Or will the program component scores merely track the tech scores, as we saw in quite a few events last year?

    Mathman

  13. #43
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    I don't think it matters much what Irina thinks of her own performance. After all, that's why there are judges. One can better evaluate a performance in the third person. And of course the skater will be biased towards herself! (doesn't help that the judges are biased towards certain skaters themselves.)

  14. #44
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog
    I don't think it matters much what Irina thinks of her own performance. After all, that's why there are judges. One can better evaluate a performance in the third person.
    True enough, but in this case the judging panel agreed with Irina. Only one judge thought Michelle's performance was better technically than Irina's.

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