- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Just thought I would give the dictionary definition of evolution.
Intelligent Design/Creation/Evolution
- Thread starter Joesitz (RIP)
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- Aug 18, 2003
I believe the Bible to be nothing more than a history book and before anyone shouts me down for being disrespectful I am a fully paid up member of the catholic faith. The Bible can guide and direct and provide reference, but no more than any other history book it is fundamentally flawed as it is the survivors account of what happened.
I am also a Microbiologist and Epidemiologist and believe firmly in the theory of evolution. I went to a Covent school and was thought Science, including Darwinian theories and Mendelian Genetics alongside my Catholic teachings of creationism and I am perfectly comfortable being both a Catholic and a scientist but that hasn't always been the case as growing up I had great issues with reconciling the two.
I am also a Microbiologist and Epidemiologist and believe firmly in the theory of evolution. I went to a Covent school and was thought Science, including Darwinian theories and Mendelian Genetics alongside my Catholic teachings of creationism and I am perfectly comfortable being both a Catholic and a scientist but that hasn't always been the case as growing up I had great issues with reconciling the two.
Thank you. I have no interest in telling someone what to believe, but too many of those who completely disavow any part of the evolutionist theories seem to forget the simple, basic definition of the word. Things change to adapt to their environment...simple. No where in the definition does it directly dispell any part of the Creationists beliefs.dlkksk8fan said:
If people of either 'side' wish to converse with others as to why YOU believe what you do, fine. Just don't go waving your finger in someone's face telling them THEY are wrong because they don't have the same beliefs as you.
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- Dec 8, 2004
I don't believe any of the theories to be complete because the nature of science is that it is continually revised as information is tested and researched. True scientists begin their research with no preconceived ideas and form theories based on where their research leads them.
I have never understood why many people of faith feel it is necessary to refute scientific thought. The evolution debate reminds me of the persecution endured by Copernicus when he theorized that the earth revolved around the sun, and church leaders considered it heresy to suggest that the earth was not the center of the universe.
Many of the people I hear speak out against evolution are not educated at all in science and are speaking from a position of complete ignorance on the subject. Often they sound like they are trapped in a time warp circa the Scopes trial, as if evolutionary thought had not changed since the 1920’s.
I find the evolution debate less troubling than the stem cell debate because I do not hear any quadriplegics or families of Alzheimer’s patients speaking out against stem cell research, only those whose moral high ground is not threatened by disease or injury.
I have never understood why many people of faith feel it is necessary to refute scientific thought. The evolution debate reminds me of the persecution endured by Copernicus when he theorized that the earth revolved around the sun, and church leaders considered it heresy to suggest that the earth was not the center of the universe.
Many of the people I hear speak out against evolution are not educated at all in science and are speaking from a position of complete ignorance on the subject. Often they sound like they are trapped in a time warp circa the Scopes trial, as if evolutionary thought had not changed since the 1920’s.
I find the evolution debate less troubling than the stem cell debate because I do not hear any quadriplegics or families of Alzheimer’s patients speaking out against stem cell research, only those whose moral high ground is not threatened by disease or injury.
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I find it achingly odd that this is such a devisive issue in the US today. It seems we may have more important things to rally around than the speculation on "who's theory is correct" To whit:
I was riding along with a friend that just out of the blue asked "do you believe in evolution?" I said "I'm not sure what to believe since nothing has proof positive"
She replied "well, I know one thing. I didn't come from any monkies!"
After that I said what are some of the more profound words that I have spoken to date; they must have come from somewhere else... I replied " I don' think that's important. I've been instructed to love my neighbor, banish hate from my heart, do god's work for god's sake and attempt to lead a full, happy, and purposeful life. I don't think I have so much extra time to debate the origion of the species, when there is so much that the species needs"
So while we were blessed with minds to think and wills that drive us to "be right", I also think the clearer instructions in the book are what I need to follow...love, forgive, be patient, take time, be worshipful in spirit and mindful in speech and deed...
In a sentence, I really think whats wrong with the US is that we want to focus on "who's right" rather than "what's right"....I think my father said it best... "Son, I can't help you and condemn you at the same time. Love doesn't work that way"
Hey, maybe I come by those profound words honestly. I hope so. I also pray that my focus will be on others and how we can help one another rather that "warring over god"
I was riding along with a friend that just out of the blue asked "do you believe in evolution?" I said "I'm not sure what to believe since nothing has proof positive"
She replied "well, I know one thing. I didn't come from any monkies!"
After that I said what are some of the more profound words that I have spoken to date; they must have come from somewhere else... I replied " I don' think that's important. I've been instructed to love my neighbor, banish hate from my heart, do god's work for god's sake and attempt to lead a full, happy, and purposeful life. I don't think I have so much extra time to debate the origion of the species, when there is so much that the species needs"
So while we were blessed with minds to think and wills that drive us to "be right", I also think the clearer instructions in the book are what I need to follow...love, forgive, be patient, take time, be worshipful in spirit and mindful in speech and deed...
In a sentence, I really think whats wrong with the US is that we want to focus on "who's right" rather than "what's right"....I think my father said it best... "Son, I can't help you and condemn you at the same time. Love doesn't work that way"
Hey, maybe I come by those profound words honestly. I hope so. I also pray that my focus will be on others and how we can help one another rather that "warring over god"
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Sorry, but I am one that believes it is NOT a history. The stories in the original bible were created to instruct a life style and the basis of classes for children. JMO.diver chick said:
Joe
what am I missing here??
Okay, I'm a creationist/intelligent design believer, though as someone else said there are aspects of evolution I buy into; mainly adaptation/survival of the fittest. But taking that all the way back so that life suddenly appears, with no outside help or power, out of inanimate matter---that's what I totally don't get how anyone could believe.
Here's what I sincerely want to know. Could you believe this scenario:
I place an aluminum bolt on the floor. I leave. I come back 2 million years later, and that bolt has come to life, turned into thousands of different types of life forms, some live in the water, some live on land, some can fly. They communicate, reproduce, and have established multiple languages, sciences, literature, art, religions.
I couldn't believe that could happen. Can you? & if so, how? & if not, how is that different from buying into evolution beginning with life spontaneously happening all on its own?
Okay, I'm a creationist/intelligent design believer, though as someone else said there are aspects of evolution I buy into; mainly adaptation/survival of the fittest. But taking that all the way back so that life suddenly appears, with no outside help or power, out of inanimate matter---that's what I totally don't get how anyone could believe.
Here's what I sincerely want to know. Could you believe this scenario:
I place an aluminum bolt on the floor. I leave. I come back 2 million years later, and that bolt has come to life, turned into thousands of different types of life forms, some live in the water, some live on land, some can fly. They communicate, reproduce, and have established multiple languages, sciences, literature, art, religions.
I couldn't believe that could happen. Can you? & if so, how? & if not, how is that different from buying into evolution beginning with life spontaneously happening all on its own?
Here's a site I found on how RNA originated. It's from my school so I trust that the authors aren't BSing.
So are you willing to believe that this could happen spontaneously? It seems likely enough to me. :think:
So basically once RNA formed, DNA wasn't all that hard to form, and of course once you have DNA and amino acids you can make proteins, which means that cells can form, etc.
So are you willing to believe that this could happen spontaneously? It seems likely enough to me. :think:
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
My questiion would be 'why would a supreme being get so involved with such minute matters before the advent of man?' If anyone cares to anwer that, I would appreciate it but please do not say that the supreme being works in mysterious ways. That is a cop out and has always been a cop out. Not at all scientific, or even godly.backspin said:
Joe
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- Joined
- Aug 4, 2003
The Enlightenment really screwed everything up for everyone.
As a student of philosophy and theology I choose to disagree with the apparent premise of the arguement. That is that theories of evolution and the arguement of intelligent design are presented as "opposites" are therefore mutually exclusive.
I suggest that we go back to Hume who says that since cause and effect cannot be proven "scientifically" we have to have faith in science, sort of.
I chose to believe in God and I also choose to believe in cause and effect. Since I find the evidence of God more compelling than the evidence of evolution I tend to think that evolution just isn't very important. Do we evolve into better people or do we just become taller, faster and more intellectually facile?
Without moral evolution I just can't see how it matters.
These are some complex issues and it would behoove us to really think hard as opposed to letting politicians and the media decide what we think is important.
As a student of philosophy and theology I choose to disagree with the apparent premise of the arguement. That is that theories of evolution and the arguement of intelligent design are presented as "opposites" are therefore mutually exclusive.
I suggest that we go back to Hume who says that since cause and effect cannot be proven "scientifically" we have to have faith in science, sort of.
I chose to believe in God and I also choose to believe in cause and effect. Since I find the evidence of God more compelling than the evidence of evolution I tend to think that evolution just isn't very important. Do we evolve into better people or do we just become taller, faster and more intellectually facile?
Without moral evolution I just can't see how it matters.
These are some complex issues and it would behoove us to really think hard as opposed to letting politicians and the media decide what we think is important.
I'm on the fence with this a little. I think that ID should be considered but then I also believe in the theory of evolution entwined with my own religious beliefs.
That and I don't like how hostile the media has been over this, treating people who entertain the idea of it as stupid.
That and I don't like how hostile the media has been over this, treating people who entertain the idea of it as stupid.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
But that's just a belief not a fact-no one has seen "God". Religion is to explain the unexplainable. No one really knows how life began because we weren't there.
Alsace said:
Well, I'm more of the science type of guy. But I respect people's opinions all around, including those who don't believe in evolution- I just can't say I agree with them.
The evidence is out there. Yes, we weren't there to witness it, but hey, experimental science is all about theories and hypotheses. I won't go into much further detail due to time constraint and the fact that I don't want to raise a huge stink, but I think there is a significant amount of data and evidence out there that suggests we evolved from lesser beings. But that's what I "believe".
dlkksk8fan said:
But for many of us faith is not just a belief but a relationship. I was not raised in a Christian home and so was not indoctrinated with this belief. As an adult, I am in relationship with Christ and have had healing that can not be explained any other way. I don't know how life began, but I know why. God desired fellowship with us.
