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Thread: ISU ladies standings

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    ISU ladies standings

    Just checking out the ISU standings going into the Olympic year, WOW, what does all this mean, if anything.

    http://www.isufs.org/ws/wladies.htm.

    Can somebody explain? Thanks.
    Last edited by millie; 09-29-2005 at 09:39 AM.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    It means Joannie and Susanna are among the top 10 skaters in the Worlds. Michelle's absence on the list is noteworthy.

    Joe

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    What the ISU really needs to do is make worlds an open event and allow all qualified skaters who meet threshold requirements to compete (and not limit strong countries to 3 entrants and allow really weak countries to send 1 entrant). Then you would really have an indicator as to the skaters' true placement. No one takes the rankings seriously except for the lower ranked skaters who need the placements to secure GP invitations.

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    The rankings criteria, along with the men's, pairs and dance standings, is linked from this ISU page:
    http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/pa...v-list,00.html

    Kwan is currently #16 (ladies go to down #169) based on the criteria, which is heavily weighted towards results from Junior and Senior Grand Prix events and Four Continents, for example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    It means Joannie and Susanna are among the top 10 skaters in the Worlds. Michelle's absence on the list is noteworthy.

    Joe
    All her absence means is that she didn't compete the GP. She is considerably higher ranked in worlds and judges' estimation. It's noteworthy that Michelle doesn't need to be "ranked highly" to consistently receive 2 event invites.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    But she lost a World's medal - first time in 10 years - Maybe it's indicative that she is losing her 'high' standing.

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    But she lost a World's medal - first time in 10 years - Maybe it's indicative that she is losing her 'high' standing.

    Joe
    She was low (relatively) on the ISU standings last year too and on the podium...these rankings are based on how many ISU sanctioned competitions you are in, and then even those are weighted if I'm not mistaken, and include more than one year.

    anyway, it is, of course, impossible to disagree Joe -- I mean she did finish off the podium for the first time in 10 years last season, and thus 'lost' her podium standing, clearly a decline.

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    As I say, this list is heavily biased towards the skaters who do the GP. But is that list accurate? I don't know. I don't think so but that's JMO.

    I can't buy that Suguri should be #3 on that list. And Irina in fourth? After dominating last season? Why isn't she number one?

    Yes, MK not getting a world medal WILL hurt her standings here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog
    And Irina in fourth? After dominating last season? Why isn't she number one?
    Because she missed all of the 03-04 season except for Worlds, where she had a mediocre result. (And also missed 2003 Worlds, although it appears that they've wiped all the results from that year for everyone now that the 05-06 season has begun.)

    Again, these rankings don't tell us who is the best, second best, etc., skater in the world at any given time.

    They tell us who has had the best combination of results in international events across the last three seasons. In general, better skaters will get better results and more ranking points. But participating in fewer competitions, whether because you just don't want to, you're physically unable to during the week of competition, or your federation chooses not to send you, or any other reason, gets you fewer points, regardless of the actual quality of your skating.

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    OK then, that's their problem. They need to do the ranking system YEAR BY YEAR. I don't think it works to combine the results of past competitions because the standings change every year. If they didn't, wouldn't the podium at Worlds (and other int. comps) look the same year after year? I believe THAT's why it's off.

    As for MK being in 16th- as harsh as it might sound she's only participated in worlds. Going by the way they are ranking this system it makes sense for her to be there. However it's still a bit low and worlds results should be given more weight (I think she should still be in top 10 territory). JMO.

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    They tell us who has had the best combination of results in international events across the last three seasons. In general, better skaters will get better results and more ranking points. But participating in fewer competitions, whether because you just don't want to, you're physically unable to during the week of competition, or your federation chooses not to send you, or any other reason, gets you fewer points, regardless of the actual quality of your skating.
    If this is how they do it then they should title it so. It's misleading to call a list like this "world standings". JMO...

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    All of this is explained with great clarity in the link Sylvia provided (click on "Explanation of Criteria").

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly
    Because she missed all of the 03-04 season except for Worlds, where she had a mediocre result. (And also missed 2003 Worlds, although it appears that they've wiped all the results from that year for everyone now that the 05-06 season has begun.)

    Again, these rankings don't tell us who is the best, second best, etc., skater in the world at any given time.

    They tell us who has had the best combination of results in international events across the last three seasons. In general, better skaters will get better results and more ranking points. But participating in fewer competitions, whether because you just don't want to, you're physically unable to during the week of competition, or your federation chooses not to send you, or any other reason, gets you fewer points, regardless of the actual quality of your skating.
    I don't think 4th in the World is a mediocre result. We were all just disappionted that she didn't medal and do the GP events..

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    Quote Originally Posted by equestrianguy
    I don't think 4th in the World is a mediocre result. We were all just disappionted that she didn't medal and do the GP events..
    I was referring to Slutskaya's 9th place at 2004 Worlds.

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    What the ISU ranking list means

    Quote Originally Posted by millie
    Just checking out the ISU standings going into the Olympic year, WOW, what does all this mean, if anything.

    http://www.isufs.org/ws/wladies.htm.

    Can somebody explain? Thanks.
    It means that skaters who competed at and did well at Worlds (Sr/Jr), Euros or 4CC's, and the GP (Sr/Jr) series in the past two/three years have a higher ISU ranking than skaters who:
    a) did not do well at those events, or
    b) did not compete at all of those events, or
    c) did not get a chance to compete at those events
    during the same time frame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    It means Joannie and Susanna are among the top 10 skaters in the Worlds. Michelle's absence on the list is noteworthy.
    Michelle IS on the list, just not on the first page. As others have said, she is #16 on the ISU ranking list.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    But she lost a World's medal - first time in 10 years - Maybe it's indicative that she is losing her 'high' standing.
    A gold medal at 2005 Worlds would have given Michelle 1200 points -- her 4th place yielded her only 150 points less -- 1050. That difference is negligible compared to the points she didn't have because of not competing in the GP series the past two seasons. After all, Amber Corwin earned 525 points for her 5th and 8th GP placements last year. Add a low estimate of 1250 total points for the past two GP seasons, and you have over 3000 points, or in the top 3. What is shows is that by not competing in the GP series, Michelle's ranking is much lower than it would otherwise be. If the ISU ranking mattered a great deal to Michelle, I'm sure she would have put those events higher on her priority list. It's obviously higher on the ISU's list than it is on Michelle's the past few years. But she previously competed in the series (two and three events plus final) for quite a few seasons (5 at least).

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