Kwan Injured - Pulling out of Cambell's & Skate America... Life is NOT Fair

Ptichka · Oct 6, 2005

She can still make her programs competitive. She can do CoC, and then incorporate the feedback for 4CC.

Being someone's fan as little to do with this issue. I was saddened by this news, even though out of the top 4 favorites (MK, SC, IS, SA), Michelle is perhaps my least favorite.

SailorGalaxia518 · Oct 6, 2005

Ptichka said:
She can still make her programs competitive. She can do CoC, and then incorporate the feedback for 4CC.

Being someone's fan as little to do with this issue. I was saddened by this news, even though out of the top 4 favorites (MK, SC, IS, SA), Michelle is perhaps my least favorite.

Yeah, I think Michelle is going to need a miracle to win the OGM. To be honest, Irina Slutskaya has a much better chance to win than Michelle

BTW, Will Irina become the first russian to win OG in the Ladies Division?

Ptichka · Oct 6, 2005

SailorGalaxia518 said:
BTW, Will Irina become the first russian to win OG in the Ladies Division?

You mean Would Irina..., right? Yes, she would. Until her silver in SLC, the only Russian/ Soviet Olympic ladies' medal was Kira Ivanova's bronze in Sarajevo.

Doggygirl · Oct 6, 2005

SailorGalaxia518 said:
Yeah, I think Michelle is going to need a miracle to win the OGM. To be honest, Irina Slutskaya has a much better chance to win than Michelle

BTW, Will Irina become the first russian to win OG in the Ladies Division?

I bet we would have said the same exact thing about Sarah just 4 short years ago.

I wish MK a speedy recovery and hope she is "in the hunt" for Oly Gold along with the rest in the deep ladies field this year!! And on the Irina question? She has never had the "finesse" of other top ladies, but she sure has a fire in her that makes her very exciting IMO. So best wishes to Irina too.

DG

Lucy25 · Oct 6, 2005

Doggygirl said:
Hi Lucy25. I now know we have TWO things in common. Our agreement on these speculations, and also the fact that we are both "Master Procrastinators!"

DG

yelyoh · Oct 6, 2005

I first read this news on MKF and my initial response was what the hell...!!!!! Is she really injured or just did not feel ready and is skipping out on the GP series and doing the Dec comp (cheesfest) and then Nats because she can't take the competition. In short, though I love Michelle, I was disgusted with her and thought she won't even get another Oly medal of any color. Then I realized she never drops the cheesefests so this could be real. I now think she is taking this year very seriously, working hard with TT to make it all happen and her body is showing the strain. At any rate, this will not bode well if she has the same amount of exposure as last year. It will be telling if she skips COC. I am so bummed.

Piel · Oct 6, 2005

Any word on that hinged boot?

This is very sad news. Being an uber Kwan fan, I love any opportunity to see her skate. As much as I have emotionally invested in her career I would never assume that I or any other fan, nonfan (copyright RD

), interested observer, or Kwan hater (y'all don't REALLY exist, do ya?) would try to second guess her motives or know what is best for her and her career. As long as she or any skater is not breaking any ISU rules it is not up to us to decide what she should or should not do. Don't like what she does then don't use the products she endorses, and refuse to buy tickets to her events. No one in their right mind would actually believe that she hasn't been trying to improve. Unless a skater shows a really bad work ethic I think that all of them try to improve and meet the new challenges of the sport. They may not do it the way we think they should but that's probably why we are not being paid the big bucks to train them /manage their careers. IMO some of you completly overlook the fact that us much as someone tries to improve they all have limitations as to what they can physically do. By now we know that anyone who can manage to grab their blade will be attempting to rack up Bielman points, Likewise with 3/3's and quads. I don't think any skater is thinking "My artistic integrity just won't allow me to challenge technically so I'll just keep my fingers crossed that everyone else falls or get sick/injured". OF COURSE they are all trying to up the ante. Some just cannot up it as much as others. Unfortunately for the sport of figure skating figures are gone and it looks like the skating part is suspect too. Maybe it would be more accurate to call it tricks on ice.

Doggygirl · Oct 6, 2005

Piel said:
Any word on that hinged boot?

This is very sad news. Being an uber Kwan fan, I love any opportunity to see her skate. As much as I have emotionally invested in her career I would never assume that I or any other fan, nonfan (copyright RD ), interested observer, or Kwan hater (y'all don't REALLY exist, do ya?) would try to second guess her motives or know what is best for her and her career. As long as she or any skater is not breaking any ISU rules it is not up to us to decide what she should or should not do. Don't like what she does then don't use the products she endorses, and refuse to buy tickets to her events. No one in their right mind would actually believe that she hasn't been trying to improve. Unless a skater shows a really bad work ethic I think that all of them try to improve and meet the new challenges of the sport. They may not do it the way we think they should but that's probably why we are not being paid the big bucks to train them /manage their careers. IMO some of you completly overlook the fact that us much as someone tries to improve they all have limitations as to what they can physically do. By now we know that anyone who can manage to grab their blade will be attempting to rack up Bielman points, Likewise with 3/3's and quads. I don't think any skater is thinking "My artistic integrity just won't allow me to challenge technically so I'll just keep my fingers crossed that everyone else falls or get sick/injured". OF COURSE they are all trying to up the ante. Some just cannot up it as much as others. Unfortunately for the sport of figure skating figures are gone and it looks like the skating part is suspect too. Maybe it would be more accurate to call it tricks on ice.

I was thinking about that hinged boot when I saw the news about MK earlier today. It's been awhile since we've discussed it here - maybe we should resurrect that older thread and try to come up with a comprehensive list of skater's using the new form of boot and how they fare.

I respect the fact that you are a self proclaimed "uber" (your words) Kwan fan, and how disappointing this news is. I'm more of a "non-fan" in the sense that I am a huge fan of the sport, but enjoy watching and rooting for many skaters in each division, with the excpetion of dance. (sorry to the dance fans!) That being said, I am very sorry to hear that MK is injured in this important year, and has had to withdraw from two of the early season scheduled competitions. I hope her doctor is right, and that two weeks off the ice, and a gradual on-ice return to training / competition will put MK in good competitive form for the peak of the season.

Now I just have to ask. What is the Biellman, 3/3, quad, "upping the ante" commentary all about? Where did that come from in the context of MK's hip injury and withdrawl from two competitions? How does this MK news pertain to skaters who attempt (or not) Biellmann's, 3/3's or quads? From what I've read, MK's doctor (nor MK) indicated anything about how this injury occured - much less saying that it came from a one time incident, or a seasonal training situation, or a long term situation involving Biellmanns, 3/3's or quads. And how does "figures being gone" fit into this??

I'm just trying to understand the many things being put forward regarding MK's injury that seem really "out there" to me.

DG

Doggygirl · Oct 6, 2005

Red Dog said:
I stated earlier that my comments were only my own speculation and not based on fact. That said, it's very odd that Kwan gets injured now that she (admittedly) realized that she had some serious work to do to catch up to the others. It didn't happen before. Not in 05, 04, 03, 02...

Sorry Red Dog, but if you look at my post, I was reponding to (and quoting) and asking questions about Piel's post.

And Piel, I hope you know I'm asking these questions with respect.

DG

CDMM1991 · Oct 6, 2005

Ptichka said:
She can still make her programs competitive. She can do CoC, and then incorporate the feedback for 4CC.

Being someone's fan as little to do with this issue. I was saddened by this news, even though out of the top 4 favorites (MK, SC, IS, SA), Michelle is perhaps my least favorite.

SA? Who's that?:scratch:

R.D. · Oct 6, 2005

CDMM1991 said:
SA? Who's that?:scratch:

Shizuka Arakawa

R.D. · Oct 6, 2005

Doggygirl said:
Sorry Red Dog, but if you look at my post, I was reponding to (and quoting) and asking questions about Piel's post.

My Bad. I will delete my post then.

Piel · Oct 6, 2005

DG,

It has been brought up that MK only gave lip service to upping the ante and getting ready for the COP, has been taking it easy, blah, blah, blah, and now in a rush for her last chance at OG has become injured. Personally what I love about skating is the beautiful deep edges, flow, musicality with a jump here and there. It saddens me that the sport has gone to the extreme...... all about the jumps and tricks so much that skaters are injured trying to rack up points while the opportunities for beautiful skating in a program are limited. I would have given Dorothy Hamil the OGM just for her skating alone without any jumps, LOL. Now it seems that a LP has come down to jump-Bspin-jump-Bspin. So by trying to do these elements skaters are injured. Yes, it's a fact of life with sport comes injury. OTOH extreme flexibility moves and 3/3/quads have made injury more frequent. If a skater wants to be competitive they have to adjust and do the tricks. While the skaters who don't have the deep edges, flow, and musicality can compensate with the tricks skaters who don't do the tricks aren't given the same compensation for their edging, control, and musicality. That's what I meant about the figures being gone from FS and now the skating seems to be going too.

R.D. · Oct 6, 2005

I believe the artistic factor was pretty big back in Kwan's heyday. The 6.0 system almost ALWAYS gave her the advantage over everyone. The two exceptions were Tara and Irina.

Piel · Oct 6, 2005

True RD. I think there are two (at least, LOL) kinds of FS fans or nonfans

. There's the group that loves the thrill of the big jumps and extreme moves and there's the group that likes their FS to be more delicate, ethereal. The perfect skater and program IMO should be able to combine both. I feel that jumps and tricks should be highlights in a program where the emphasis is on the edging, flow, and musicality. Today it seems to be jumps and tricks one after another set to music that is being rewarded.

76olympics · Oct 6, 2005

"BACK in her heyday?" You make it sound as though Michelle was contemporary with Sonja Henie! I can't imagine the demands that all of these triple jumps place on these skaters' bodies . I won't second guess their decisions because I certainly have never been in their skates (if I had, my bottom would probably be very sore).

I am not the biggest Kwan fan --but I think she has conducted herself with a great deal of style. I won't count her out until she does. And even then, what a ride she has had. I think her best Olympic chance was in 1998 with the lovely Lyra program. I was disappointed that she didn't replicate that magical performance at Nationals there. But-you never can predict the future. Maybe-her new programs will be interesting and fresh. I hope we get to see them.

Doggygirl · Oct 6, 2005

Piel said:
DG,

It has been brought up that MK only gave lip service to upping the ante and getting ready for the COP, has been taking it easy, blah, blah, blah, and now in a rush for her last chance at OG has become injured. Personally what I love about skating is the beautiful deep edges, flow, musicality with a jump here and there. It saddens me that the sport has gone to the extreme...... all about the jumps and tricks so much that skaters are injured trying to rack up points while the opportunities for beautiful skating in a program are limited. I would have given Dorothy Hamil the OGM just for her skating alone without any jumps, LOL. Now it seems that a LP has come down to jump-Bspin-jump-Bspin. So by trying to do these elements skaters are injured. Yes, it's a fact of life with sport comes injury. OTOH extreme flexibility moves and 3/3/quads have made injury more frequent. If a skater wants to be competitive they have to adjust and do the tricks. While the skaters who don't have the deep edges, flow, and musicality can compensate with the tricks skaters who don't do the tricks aren't given the same compensation for their edging, control, and musicality. That's what I meant about the figures being gone from FS and now the skating seems to be going too.

Hi Piel. I can certainly relate with you on the Dorothy Hamil front, and also (especially!!) on the Janet Lynn front. (and Peggy too as long as we're at it!!)

Like these other famous ladies, MK has impacted the ladies division of figure skating forever. I think I'm getting her "stats" right - but please correct me if I'm wrong. MK is a 5X World Champion, and a 9X National champion. She is also a 2X Oly medalist - which says a lot to the sport at large (fans and participants and officials) about her ability to manage her training / competitive seasons and stay healthy. She is a legend in her time, and I'm sure she has already set many records that will be very difficult to break, and that young skaters will look up to for many years to come. And who knows - Michelle may still have more record (and/or heart) breaking performances in her that we have yet to see.

The news report today was sad - even for a "non-uber" fan of any particular lady in current ladies figure skating. I have the deepest respect for what MK is good at, and what she brings to the ice. I really don't think there is any need based on what MK's doctor said to condemn 3/3's, or Biellmann positions, or any other specific moves that skaters other than MK are working to master in an effort to compete at the highest level of the sport. Neither MK nor her doctor (from what I have read anyway) have said that practicing these things contributed to MK's injury. So why bring that into the discussion? It seems almost like an insult to the other skaters who are simply doing their best to compete, just like MK does her best to compete.

I still haven't figured out what figures have to do with competitive skating these days, but now I'm babbling. I say all of the above with respect for MK, but with equal respect for other skaters who are working hard to be competitive at the elite level. I just don't see what "dissing" of Biellmanns, 3/3's or quads has to do with MK's withdrawl since neither MK nor her doctor mentioned it thus far. That all just seems to be a sideways dissing of other skaters to me.

DG

Mathman · Oct 6, 2005

Red Dog said:
This has me scratching my head right now. The timing is really bad on this.

There is no good time to be injured.

And it could be perceived as rather "convenient".

On the contrary, being injured is always greatly inconvenient.

But I think (FOR NOW) the "evidence" points to her really being injured.

There is no "evidence" of anything, only Michelle's announcement. Everything else on this thread is idle chit-chat.

Mathman

Piel · Oct 6, 2005

DG, not dissing the skaters but the system. To be honest it p***** me off that Irina will probably win an OGM because she can rack up the COP points while Kwan will probably not win one even when her basic skating skills (line, edging, flow, musicality) are better than Irina's because she lacks a flexible back and Irina's jumping ability. BUT that's the sport and I need to get over it, LOL. Going online and seeing this about Kwan being injured has just ruined my day. I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just pouting. Also, I'm in the second month of a major kitchen remodel and quite cranky already. Piel needs a drink or a nap....maybe both.

Doggygirl · Oct 6, 2005

Make you a deal...

Piel said:
DG, not dissing the skaters but the system. To be honest it p***** me off that Irina will probably win an OGM because she can rack up the COP points while Kwan will probably not win one even when her basic skating skills (line, edging, flow, musicality) are better than Irina's because she lacks a flexible back and Irina's jumping ability. BUT that's the sport and I need to get over it, LOL. Going online and seeing this about Kwan being injured has just ruined my day. I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just pouting. Also, I'm in the second month of a major kitchen remodel and quite cranky already. Piel needs a drink or a nap....maybe both.

I humbly offer you a weekend at my house. As long as you will share one of the following with me:

1) Hot Toddy if the weather is cold ....or
2) DG's Special Lemonade if the weather is warm

THEN -

I will put you in a nice comfy place for a much needed, really long nap.

The very mention of "kitchen remodeling" makes me want to provide this type of getaway!!! (as an alternative to a serious alergic reaction!)

DG

Kwan Injured - Pulling out of Cambell's & Skate America... Life is NOT Fair

Ptichka

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SailorGalaxia518

Ptichka

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Doggygirl

Lucy25

yelyoh

Piel

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CDMM1991

R.D.

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Piel

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76olympics

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Mathman

Piel

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