Judges PDF are up! | Golden Skate

Judges PDF are up!

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Here is the link. Congrats to the ISU Web Team for providing this info, and results info in very "real" time!

http://www.isufs.org/results/gpcan05/

Let the analysis begin!

DG

ETA: Oops. Spoke too soon. The selections are showing as available, but I'm getting errors when I try to go to those links.....
 
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Kateri

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Looking at the men's LP:

..........so, a 3X-3T-2L is worth the same number of points as a 4T-3T? That seems wrong - wouldn't a quad combo be much more difficult? Not that I skate, y'unnerstan, but still.....

I'm confused as to why Buttle got reasonable GOEs on all his spins, when I remember he screwed up at least one of them - missed a catchfoot, I think? Compare Savoie, who was seriously dinged for screwing up a spin. (It was a bad spin day!!)

It never ceases to amaze me how some judges are judging on rep, not performance. Jeff, and even more so, poor Johnny, were skating with serious distractions (injuries to dignity and feet respectively) and their programmes suffered for it, especially towards the end. How are they still getting 7s and more for Performance and Interpretation??


kateri
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
I haven't looked at the sheets yet, but I was really surprised (not in a good way) at how close the scores were for Buttle's and Sandhu's long program. My gut reaction was it should NOT have been so close, but maybe that's the 6 system lingering in my mind?? But, BUttle did have trouble with a spin, and with footwork at one point..hmmmmmm.

Also...i wondering about Rochetter versus Cizny in some areas too....
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Ok...I just started to look at this and first thing I noticed: Sandhu did a single axel and a double axel...I thought he completed a double axel and a triple axel...These score sheets are awesome....I have got to fix my printer so I can print these out!
 

Kateri

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
emma said:
Ok...I just started to look at this and first thing I noticed: Sandhu did a single axel and a double axel...I thought he completed a double axel and a triple axel...These score sheets are awesome....I have got to fix my printer so I can print these out!

He definitely did a single, but the other was a triple, I thought. Maybe it was not fully rotated, and didn't count? I'll have to rewatch....a pleasant chore! Lurve the programme!

Oops scratch that - I ws half right, he did three axels, a triple, a double (planned, I think) and an (unplanned!) single.



k.
 

sk8tngcanuck

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
In regards to ES single axel - it's my understanding that only double and triples count towards the limits imposed. A skater can do a single axel (intentionally!) and it only counts towards choreo, skating skills, transitions etc. and not towards their jump limits.

Canuck
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Alissa versus Joannie:

Jump base marks: Alissa 35.8, Joannie 37.6. They both both missed a couple of intended triples.

Non-jump elements: Alissa 15.4, Joannie 14.8.

GOE: Alissa +3.46 (almost entirely on spins and spirals), Joannie 1.3.

PCS: Alissa 55.12, Joannie 53.92. Not much to remark on. One judge gave Joannie 8.00 on both performance/execution and interpretation.

Two things stand out. If either of them had landed all their jumps she would have won handily. Joannie gave away 4.4 points by singling her triple flip. (However, she did complete a 2A/3S sequence at the end of her program -- the only way you can work in a seventh triple attempt if you don't have a triple/triple (or a triple Axel).

Speaking of triple Axels, Yukari Nakano did get credit for hers (base value 7.5), but a wonky landing cost her -1.20 GOE. So she ended up with only 6.3 points for the element -- compared with 6.0 for a triple Lutz (6.6 if it is in the second half). So a triple Axel by itself is not enought to get you anywhere.

Alissa doubled her flip. She also did three combos in which the second jump was a double toe. I think she intends her first element to be a triple Lutz/triple toe.

The second thing I noticed is this. Although jumps get more points (more than twice as much) as the non-jump elements, still, if all of the competitors are presenting pretty much the same jump card, the extra level or GOE on spins can easily be the difference. I don't think a skater will be able to say, well, I'll just concentrate on the jumps and let the rest go. Someone else will be concentrating of jumps, too, and also rack up the bonus points on spins and spirals.

MM
 
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Kateri

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
sk8tngcanuck said:
In regards to ES single axel - it's my understanding that only double and triples count towards the limits imposed. A skater can do a single axel (intentionally!) and it only counts towards choreo, skating skills, transitions etc. and not towards their jump limits.

Canuck

Oh, I assumed he meant to do a double, since I thought you could do unlimited double jumps (or is that just in terms of the Zayak rule, they still count as jumping passes, which are limited?)

Was it Sawyer who was doing double jumps amid footwork - I love that! Reminds me of the days of Brian Orser and such. Not that I remember - but I have tapes, darnit!

K.
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
MM...or anyone who knows...AND PARDON ME if this is a dumb question...I hear you saying that the spins/spirals are where the positive GOE is coming in...but don't jumps get GOE points, and why can't you get lots of points for good jumps?

Do you think Rochettes' PCS seemed 'fair' or are you seeing the same problem as last year with this portion of the scores (basically just handing out more or less uniform marks across the five categories)?
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Mathman said:
The second thing I noticed is this. Although jumps get more points (more than twice as much) as the non-jump elements, still, if all of the competitors are presenting pretty much the same jump card, the extra level or GOE on spins can easily be the difference. I don't think a skater will be able to say, well, I'll just concentrate on the jumps and let the rest go. Someone else will be concentrating of jumps, too, and also rack up the bonus points on spins and spirals.

MM

It's interesting you mention this - I was just thinking this same thing yesterday. Especially in the SP's. So many of the top ladies really have the same jump layout. 3Z/2T, 3F, 2A being the most common that comes to mind. A 3/3 or 3A is a HUGE risk in the SP if it doesn't work, (4 point loss for a fall, and probably -2GOE for an under rotated jump) so the most obvious way to establish a lead in the SP is through the non-jump elements.

To a slightly lesser degree this holds true for the men as well. I think we may see more quad attempts in the SP than we will 3A attempts for the ladies, and I think we'll see a broader range of things attempted, but with a limited number of jumping passes it's still pretty high risk if something goes wrong.

I'm really glad there is now a clear value placed on difficult spins, spirals, footwork, etc.

COC will be exciting. It would be more so with MK in the mix, but still quite an interesting field.

DG
 
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