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Thread: CoP Scores at 9! Is that same as 6.0

  1. #16
    On Edge Piel's Avatar
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    Maybe this i how the ISU left itself some wriggle room in the COP?

  2. #17
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptichka
    How can audience connection possibly be quantified? For instance, skaters will always make a better audience connection on home ice. Does this mean they're more deserving?
    ITA - I can't believe that statement is in the ISU rules

    "the skater must establish an invisible bond with the audience."

    and we will argue to the death that our favorite skater did exactly that and your favorite skater did not.

    I think there should be established that the program has no stops and poses.

    Joe

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    I think there should be established that the program has no stops and poses.

    Joe
    I agree. I don't like it when skaters just stop in the middle of their program and just basically stay in one spot and barely move in order to catch their breath and 'emote' and then continue. Especially not when other skaters (*coughJEFFcough*) DON'T stop - they just constantly move throughout the program, making it so much more difficult, yet keep the energy up without that rest. So no stop and 'look at me' poses please. At least not facing me.

  4. #19
    Hopeless fan Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piel
    You've got it DG! People have been dissing her for taking it easy when in reality she has been working the invisibility clause of the COP. Maybe that's her answer to Beilmann mania? She has been doing it since BEFORE the COP went into effect so the judges must have turned her on to it giving her another unfair advantage.
    I'm totally starting to get it!! The Kwanspiracy Theory is all about invisibility. While the Slutespiracy Theory (please note inclusion of the "e") might have been about the Biellmann COP Extra Point Thing happening, MK has been diliigently at work in the background, utilizing her vast influence, developing the Invisibility MK Invisibility COP Factor. So everyone who questioned her past GP decisions now gets to eat a Big Plate Of Crow.

    YEAH for the Oly Season!!! (here's to MK, IS, SC, FS, CK, SA, MA, etc. all having a great Oly year!!)

  5. #20
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    How can audience connection possibly be quantified? For instance, skaters will always make a better audience connection on home ice. Does this mean they're more deserving?
    Very good point, Ptichka. I, too, don't really understand how you measure something that is so vaguely defined (I thought that was one of the main reasons for dumping the old system anyway....). I mean, for goodness sake, it has the word "invisible" in it........how in the world do you assign a point value to something you can't see? And, certainly, skaters will receive a much warmer reception in their home countries.

  6. #21
    On Edge Piel's Avatar
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    Hey if they can reward points for something that's invisibile maybe a few thousand Kwaniacs can get the "smiral~~~~~~" ratified as a COP element.

  7. #22
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Here are the official criteria for “Performance/Execution”:

    *Physical, emotional and intellectual involvement.

    In all skating disciplines each skater must be physically committed, sincere in emotion, and equal in comprehension of the music and in execution of all movement

    *Carriage.

    Carriage is a trained inner strength of the body that makes possible ease of movement from the center of the body. Alignment is the fluid change from one movement to the next.

    *Style and individuality/personality

    Style is the distinctive use of line and movement as inspired by the music.

    Individuality/personality is a combination of personal and artistic preferences that a skater/pair/couple brings to the concept, manner, and content of the program.

    *Variety and contrast.

    Varied use of tempo, rhythm, force, size, level, movement shapes, angles, and body parts as well as the use of contrast.

    *Projection.

    The skater radiates energy resulting in an invisible connection with the audience.

    May the Force be with them!

    But I have to give Nicole Bobek the nod for "varied use of body parts."

    MM

  8. #23
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    OK, but seriously...I have no objection to these criteria. I think skaters should get credit for "sincere emotion," "individual style," and "radiant energy."

    True, we will never agree on who has these things and who doesn't.

    Hence judges.

    MM

  9. #24
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    The skater radiates energy resulting in an invisible connection with the audience.
    ....I'm not so sure I want to be part of that audience....sounds too much like a nuclear meltdown! I don't have a problem with the criteria, either....but it sounds just as general as the old system in this department.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Here are the official criteria for “Performance/Execution”:

    *Physical, emotional and intellectual involvement.

    In all skating disciplines each skater must be physically committed, sincere in emotion, and equal in comprehension of the music and in execution of all movement

    *Carriage.

    Carriage is a trained inner strength of the body that makes possible ease of movement from the center of the body. Alignment is the fluid change from one movement to the next.

    *Style and individuality/personality

    Style is the distinctive use of line and movement as inspired by the music.

    Individuality/personality is a combination of personal and artistic preferences that a skater/pair/couple brings to the concept, manner, and content of the program.

    *Variety and contrast.

    Varied use of tempo, rhythm, force, size, level, movement shapes, angles, and body parts as well as the use of contrast.

    *Projection.

    The skater radiates energy resulting in an invisible connection with the audience.

    May the Force be with them!

    But I have to give Nicole Bobek the nod for "varied use of body parts."

    MM
    I have no problem with these rules. FS is a subjective sport- it's sport and art together. There are other disciplines (sports and non-sports) that have some subjectivity, and I am OK with it. Everything does not have to be robotic, or with just one possible answer.

    I do believe some of the hostility is coming from the fact that Russians have won more times than others.

    Vash

  11. #26
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01
    I have no problem with these rules. FS is a subjective sport- it's sport and art together. There are other disciplines (sports and non-sports) that have some subjectivity, and I am OK with it. Everything does not have to be robotic, or with just one possible answer.
    I agree.

    Still, it's easy to make fun of a judging system in which the winner is determined by invisible qualities. That invisible outside take-off edge on my triple Lutz ought to be worth a good +2 on GOE, not to mention the invisible connecting steps that I did leading up to it.

    MM

  12. #27
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    OK, but seriously...I have no objection to these criteria. I think skaters should get credit for "sincere emotion," "individual style," and "radiant energy."

    True, we will never agree on who has these things and who doesn't. Hence judges.MM
    The qualities are well taken but they should be a given - not scored.

    Physical, emotional and intellectual involvement All this from a teenager who hasn't much knowledge about commeraderie, scholastics, philosophy.

    I can just hear a judge saying that Kimmie has no friends outside skating; her misunderstanding of the Pythagorian Theorem, and her inability to fathom the emotional void in having a private tutor were the main reasons for so many deductions in her scores. At 16 a girl should be aware of the meaning of life and show it in her program or get another choreographer to show her how to fake it.

    Joe

  13. #28
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    I can just hear a judge saying that Kimmie has no friends outside skating; her misunderstanding of the Pythagorian Theorem, and her inability to fathom the emotional void in having a private tutor were the main reasons for so many deductions in her scores. At 16 a girl should be aware of the meaning of life and show it in her program or get another choreographer to show her how to fake it.


    "Fake it till you make it," LOL.

  14. #29
    Woman of the Waters
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01
    I do believe some of the hostility is coming from the fact that Russians have won more times than others.

    Vash
    This could be the case but I would also add that it could be said the same for Kwan who has won more times than others as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piel
    When a$$ hits ice it has a way of shattering those bonds, doesn't it,LOL? When she is on and on her feet it is something to behold.
    Ain't that the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly
    The American audience, anyway. Wasn't enough to give her gold in SLC, and I expect a more neutral audience in Torino. But if she skates her best, she should certainly be able to get 8s and maybe 9s in some of the components.
    Michelle's appeal isn't ONLY confined to the N.American continent and if I hear one more person say otherwise, I'm gonna scream. As mentioned already of course by chuckm, Dortmund would go against your point but also Lausanne and Nice as well and probably others not mentioned. However, I do agree with your last point that if she is healthy and does do her best, she could get 8s and 9s.


    As for the invisible bond????? How ludicious can the ISU be? So help me if a scandal occurs in Turin *knock on wood* I'm gonna be laughing when it blows in the ISU's face.
    Last edited by Kuchana; 11-10-2005 at 10:05 AM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly
    The American audience, anyway. Wasn't enough to give her gold in SLC, and I expect a more neutral audience in Torino. But if she skates her best, she should certainly be able to get 8s and maybe 9s in some of the components.

    Up to this point we have not seen Kwan skate yet this season, so fans can only spectulate that she will be able to get 8s and maybe 9s. But with Irina it's a different story, she has skated and we know for sure that she can get those scores and probably better scores. At this point, with regards to Kwan, we don't even know what her music is or what she is poing to be doing in her programs. It's only wishful thinking for Kwan fans up to this point that she will get those 8s and 9s.
    Last edited by millie; 11-10-2005 at 12:47 PM.

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