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Thread: Judging scandal in Torino?

  1. #16
    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee
    The anonymity is still in place to protect the judges from undue pressure from whatever source, be it other judges, their own federations, etc. Keeping the anonymity of who gave what scores AFTER the event ensures that there is no 'retribution' against any of the judges.

    I think there will come a time when the need for anonymity will no longer exist, but that's several years down the road because the 'old guard' still exists to some degree and needs to be replaced by judges and other officials who are younger and aren't tied to 'tradition' that's so long been a part of protocol judging.

    CoP is helping to address many of the manipulation concerns, but until the judges all get more proficient at using PCS, there will be questions and cries of 'skandal.' The trimmed mean certainly removes much of the ability to try to form a block because no one is sure whose scores will get included or dropped.

    If there IS a scandal at these Games, I believe it will be a fabrication of the (likely American) media, not a fault of the judges or the system.
    My hopes and beliefs are exactly as you have expressed. !!!!

    DG

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe
    Uzbeki judges are Raisa Gagarina, Rimma Orlova and Evgeny Rohkin. I believe only Rohkin is an ISU judge, and is Russian, and most likely NOT Muslim.

    Azerbaijani judges: Evgenia Bodanova (ISU) and Irina Kireeva. Bogdanova is Russian.
    That was my point. None of them are muslims.

    Joe

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    It took time, unfortunately, for S to catch up to B. I figured it may have taken 20 seconds. She took the lead and I would have given them extra credit for that. Great play by Elena - keeping her cool while he got himself adjusted.
    You're talking about Berezhnaya and Sikkarulidze in the free skate in SLC? He stepped out of the double axel, turned around on the ice, and they were back in synch in time for the double toes immediately following, and still closer together than most pairs ever are during jump sequences. Less than 2 seconds.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly
    You're talking about Berezhnaya and Sikkarulidze in the free skate in SLC? He stepped out of the double axel, turned around on the ice, and they were back in synch in time for the double toes immediately following, and still closer together than most pairs ever are during jump sequences. Less than 2 seconds.
    Yeah if you blinked you would have never know anthing happened. He recovered that quick.

  5. #20
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    Sorry guys - not the way I saw it.

  6. #21
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    If you looked away from the TV, you wouldn't even have been aware there was a glitch--two seconds, max.

    I have always considered Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze to be the last of the great Russian pairs. When they retired and left T/M and P/T in charge, the artistic quality of Russian Pairs figure skating dropped like a stone. T/M are technically expert, but their robotic skating has never appealed to me, and P/T are good but not anywhere near great.

    Sale/Pelletier weren't around long enough to have established themselves as great artistically. IMO, their "Tristan" was their best effort, but bringing back "Love Story" for the Olympics was a step backward.

  7. #22
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee
    The anonymity is still in place to protect the judges from undue pressure from whatever source, be it other judges, their own federations, etc. Keeping the anonymity of who gave what scores AFTER the event ensures that there is no 'retribution' against any of the judges.

    I think there will come a time when the need for anonymity will no longer exist, but that's several years down the road because the 'old guard' still exists to some degree and needs to be replaced by judges and other officials who are younger and aren't tied to 'tradition' that's so long been a part of protocol judging.
    I hope so. But the basis of this hope is that the judges are the good guys (at least that the new judges who will come along in the future will be), while the bad guys are the officials of the ISU and its member federations.

    It seems to me that there is quite a lot of fraternal mixing between the saints and the sinners. Maybe the New Judging System will help; maybe it will just cover it up.

    Mathman

  8. #23
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe
    I have always considered Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze to be the last of the great Russian pairs. When they retired and left T/M and P/T in charge, the artistic quality of Russian Pairs figure skating dropped like a stone. T/M are technically expert, but their robotic skating has never appealed to me, and P/T are good but not anywhere near great.
    I am totally in accord with you. B&S were very very special. But I don't want to pursue this since it's been discussed ad infinitum
    Joe

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyla2
    I agree with Joe that I don't think there will be a scandal in 2006 at the Olympics but I sure don't agree with him about B & S. They had a more difficult program and much better artistry and finesse than S & P. It was like looking at champagne and cheap wine in a bag. The main difference that the cheap wine in a bag had a clean skate.


    that's exactly the difference between those two pairs

  10. #25
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kyla2
    I agree with Joe that I don't think there will be a scandal in 2006 at the Olympics but I sure don't agree with him about B & S. They had a more difficult program and much better artistry and finesse than S & P. It was like looking at champagne and cheap wine in a bag. The main difference that the cheap wine in a bag had a clean skate.

    that's exactly the difference between those two pairs
    Why do others bash skaters to make comparisons and what does it have to do with Judging scandals in Tornino???

  11. #26
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    Does the ISU do anything to protect the computer from hackers? I cannot imagine why anyone who wanted to fix the games would bother trying to persuade a bunch of judges to finagle the PCS scores -- and put myself at the mercy of a group of idiots who don't know how to stay off of video tape or to keep their mouths shut -- when I can get the same result with one hacker programming the computer to give certain PCS scores to the skater I am betting on.
    Last edited by attyfan; 11-14-2005 at 08:45 PM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8m8

    By the way, I think those jumps should be called "Zips" not "Flutzes"....the jump starts off on an outside lutz edge and rocks over to a flip entrance. By definition, a "flutz" would have to be a jump that started from an inside edge and rocked over to an oustide takeoff edge ( I don't even know if that's possible on a triple)

    So tell all those ladies not to ZIP when they attempt a lutz.
    I like ZIP. But do they call it 'LIP' when a jump started from inside edge and rocked over to an outside edge? AFAIK, Elena, Arakawa are two offenders of LIP.

  13. #28
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    Sk8m8

    O.k. here's why I am "bashing" S & P (although I personally feel I am just expressing an opinion). I was completely and totally disgusted by the lack of grace, class and good sportsmanship exhibited by the Canadian Figure Skating Federation, and S & P who bought into the theory that the gold was stolen from them. The Canadian Figure Skating Federation screamed, yelled, jumped up and down and spoke to any forum, written or televised, that would listen to them complain about how the gold should have been theirs. S & P played the role of the wounded innocents. They should have won an Oscar, not the Olympic Gold. That is, until they managed to get another gold medal awarded. It was an appalling display and one of the real low points in figure skating. B & S had it all over them, flawed skate or not. Yes, S & P had a clean skate, but their program was much less refined, less complex and skated to a banal piece of music. The elegance and line of B & S, the quality of their program, and the overall difficulty of their skate was reason enough for them to be awarded the gold. The judges got it right the first time. FURTHERMORE, I truly believe this whole scenario, which was played out across the planet via the mass media, cost Michelle Kwan the OGM that year. The judges didn't want a repeat of this fiasco, so they found a way to award the gold to Sarah by placing Irina ahead of Michelle.
    Last edited by kyla2; 11-14-2005 at 09:37 PM.

  14. #29
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    The judges didn't want a repeat of this fiasco, so they found a way to award the gold to Sarah by placing Irina ahead of Michelle.
    I don't think so. I think it came out right. But I'm not going to re-hash this for the 10 to the nth time.

  15. #30
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    I don't think there will be a judging scandal in firgure skating in Torino. After the fiasco that followed the SLC Games I would think all parties involved would want to prevent a repeat performance. The scandal in 2002 made a lot of people question whether or not figure skating is a "real sport" and to protct its integrity, the ISU and the IOC and whoever else is involved needs to make sure that these games are judged fairly.

    Edited to add my own $0.02 : I still think B&S deserved to win

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