Ladies Short

Doggygirl · Nov 18, 2005

mzheng said:
I'm kind shocked that Mao beat both Cohen in SP.

I'm not shocked at her beat Cohen and Arakawa in TECS. It was the PCS, Arakawa only beat Mao by 1.32 points, and Cohen beat Mao only by 1.80? It is very clear that Judges are not willing to hand over Arakawa and Cohen the big PCS scores they are willing to hand over to the other top cat.

IMO from the PBP's I've read about (but of course, not seen actual performances) both Sasha and Shiz had a couple of problems. I doubt you can compare those types of SP skates to the one Irina laid down at COC that by all reports, and my eyes was commanding, and very clean. The PBP's from today suggest that Mao was quite clean with a 3/3 to boot. Sorry, but I DO think that factors into the PCS realm, whether we agree or not that it should.

I have a hard time believing that what was described as a somewhat tentative skate from Sasha would score the same in PCS as a commanding performance from Irina.

DG

gezando · Nov 18, 2005

Over at FSU some posters are saying that Mao Asada is putting an enormous pressure on herself, because she is too young to go to the olys, therefore the GP series is the olympics to her.

Last season she won big in the jr circuit, and came a very close second to Ando in the Japanese nationa. It seems like she loves to win, and with that comes the pressure, even if that is internal and not something external e.g. what Ito experienced in olys 92 IMO

curious · Nov 18, 2005

realistic51 said:
Gee, not one single 8 in Sasha's scores. Didn't Irina get some 8s in her PCS scores for her SP?

Sasha didn't skate CLEAN like Irina and she certainly can't outjump her lol!

Piel · Nov 18, 2005

curious said:
Sasha didn't skate CLEAN like Irina and she certainly can't outjump her lol!

She may not be able to outjump her but IMO she does everything else better than Irina.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 18, 2005

gezando said:
Over at FSU some posters are saying that Mao Asada is putting an enormous pressure on herself, because she is too young to go to the olys, therefore the GP series is the olympics to her.

This is definitely not like Sasha in Paris. Who honestly didn't think this was a sure thing for Sasha? Well, it's not over yet but Sasha's LP by past performances have not been perfect (except that legendary skate in Dortmund QR). She's a good skater. She can do it.

How well Mao's LP goes is anyone's guess. She's hot right now and the judges aren't worried about immaturity. I wish people would explain what they mean by 'pressure'. Pressure is a two way street. It can bring one up and it can bring one down. Little girls don't have pressure. That's a given.

Shiz and Joannie are both still in this. So we have a 4-way race for the 3 spot podium.

We can not leave out Kimmie. She's more than likely with pressure for that 3rd spot for the US Nats and getting on the Oly team. In juniors, she often came back strong in the LP after being way down in the SP.

Elena is not up to the above named for a place on the podium. She needs one to be sure of the GP Final.

Every one of these ladies will be under pressure. Let's see how they use it.

Joe

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 18, 2005

Who is Efremenko? Did Galina get married?

Joe

Mathman · Nov 18, 2005

Just for quick reference, here are Irina's program component scores from Cup of China and Sasha's from this event.

Skating Skills ..... Transitions ..... Perf/Exec .....Interp ..... Choreo

Irina: ... 8.05 ............7.65 .................8.00 ...........7.90 .........8.05

Sasha: 7.40 ............6.90 .................7.45 ............7.20 .........7.00

Doggygirl · Nov 18, 2005

Joesitz said:
This is definitely not like Sasha in Paris. Who honestly didn't think this was a sure thing for Sasha? Well, it's not over yet but Sasha's LP by past performances have not been perfect (except that legendary skate in Dortmund QR). She's a good skater. She can do it.

How well Mao's LP goes is anyone's guess. She's hot right now and the judges aren't worried about immaturity. I wish people would explain what they mean by 'pressure'. Pressure is a two way street. It can bring one up and it can bring one down. Little girls don't have pressure. That's a given.

Shiz and Joannie are both still in this. So we have a 4-way race for the 3 spot podium.

We can not leave out Kimmie. She's more than likely with pressure for that 3rd spot for the US Nats and getting on the Oly team. In juniors, she often came back strong in the LP after being way down in the SP.

Elena is not up to the above named for a place on the podium. She needs one to be sure of the GP Final.

Every one of these ladies will be under pressure. Let's see how they use it.

Joe

Doggygirl · Nov 18, 2005

New Definition for PCS!!

Pressure Cooker Scores!!

None of us can possibly mind read the "pressure" these skaters feel or don't feel on a given day, or how they mentally and physically react to that "pressure" on any given day.

But if we go with that new definition, I'd say Sasha, Shiz and Mao prevailed today in the top 3 ladies for Pressure Cooker Scores.

DG

JonnyCoop · Nov 18, 2005

Joesitz said:
Who is Efremenko? Did Galina get married?

Joe

I was wondering the same thing, tho it didn't occur to me that it might be Maniachenko. So I clicked on her name on the results page on the ISU website (for those of you who don't know, doing this will bring up their official ISU biography) and found out that yes, indeed, it is Maniachenko; she got married in June.

nymkfan51 · Nov 18, 2005

I'm interested in seeing these SP's. I can certainly understand Sasha's tech scores being lower due to the 2 foot, but her PCS seem lower than I thought they would be.
At this rate, Irina won't even have to skate her LP in Torino! Do they have a slaughter rule in figure skating? :laugh:

lulu · Nov 18, 2005

Yes, Efremenko is Galina-she recently got married, and is now using her husband's last name.

Congrats to her on her marriage, although she'll probably always be Galina Maniachenko to me.

mzheng · Nov 18, 2005

Doggygirl said:
IMO from the PBP's I've read about (but of course, not seen actual performances) both Sasha and Shiz had a couple of problems. I doubt you can compare those types of SP skates to the one Irina laid down at COC that by all reports, and my eyes was commanding, and very clean. The PBP's from today suggest that Mao was quite clean with a 3/3 to boot. Sorry, but I DO think that factors into the PCS realm, whether we agree or not that it should.

I have a hard time believing that what was described as a somewhat tentative skate from Sasha would score the same in PCS as a commanding performance from Irina.

DG

I diddn't say Sasha's PCS should be the same as Irina at COC, did I? Don't you think you always got too way ahead of interpretation my posts?

But I'm sure thinking she could use the same degree of 'inflation' on PCS scores as Judges usually do. Even that would not bring her up to the PCS score that Irina got at COC, but with a bigger margine than what she got over with Mao, that IMO would be justifiable.

I read the same pbp you read at FSU, I also read one detailed report from a person in arena.

R.D. · Nov 18, 2005

Man. Asada isn't even getting the scores Irina got at COC, and she was able to edge Cohen. Now, I know there's still an FS to be skated, but basically they can just FedEx Irina that OGM...

:sheesh:

OK, I'm not really being serious. But I HAVE to seriously wonder if everyone else has a chance in Turin if the judges fixate on giving Irina such high scores. Not that she didn't deserve to win her event(s), but according to the scorebook Cohen is 10 points behind Irina, and everyone else isn't even close (except for maybe Arakawa). I'm discounting Mao Asada since she most likely won't go to the Olympics (I hear the Japanese federation is going to try to make their case for her to go though). Suppose she DOES go, though? We suddenly have a DARK HORSE on our hands. Asada and Irina can fight for the OGM. Cohen will be stuck with the Bronze, or off the podium if someone else brings it on.

gezando · Nov 18, 2005

Joesitz said:
This is definitely not like Sasha in Paris.

By that you mean the favorite to win experiences the most pressure? Well then, Irina came through with flying colors in COC, and won wire to wire .

How well Mao's LP goes is anyone's guess.

Same goes with Cohen's lp.

She's hot right now and the judges aren't worried about immaturity.

Define immaturity? Having said that, I think Mao needs to enroll in the Lori training camp this coming summer. IMO Mao has musicality, maybe she needs Lori to find some nice pieces of music for her, and change her packaging a little bit, 2007 world will be in Japan.

I wish people would explain what they mean by 'pressure'. Pressure is a two way street. It can bring one up and it can bring one down.

That is why for the greatest atheltes the more important , prestigious the competition, the higher is their level of performance

Little girls don't have pressure. That's a given.

Well, then why did Cohen splat through her jr world competition? Cohen too was 15 then.

Mathman · Nov 19, 2005

Red Dog said:
I hear the Japanese federation is going to try to make their case for her to go though.

This is the first I have heard of this. What is the basis of their case, that Mao is actually sixteen and lied about her age?

About Irina's high scores, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, she is skating very well and no one else is, yet (except Mao). That's all.

MM

Lanie · Nov 19, 2005

gezando said:
Well, then why did Cohen splat through her jr world competition? Cohen too was 15 then.

As I remember Sasha had the flu or something while at Jr Worlds.

R.D. · Nov 19, 2005

Mathman said:
This is the first I have heard of this. What is the basis of their case, that Mao is actually sixteen and lied about her age?

Exactly- I don't think they are going to get anywhere with this. The bottom line is, Mao is below the required age, and rules are rules. So on that basis she should not go.

About Irina's high scores, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, she is skating very well and no one else is, yet (except Mao). That's all.

MM

This has been the case for the past two years. One thing that is rather curious though is that her ONE poor performance took place in Turin. Will it happen again next year? I don't know. But I think Irina is going to build the biggest lead ever known to man going into that FS that she could WITHDRAW from the damn event and still win. That's how discouraging all this is, to me anyway.

BronzeisGolden · Nov 19, 2005

This has been the case for the past two years. One thing that is rather curious though is that her ONE poor performance took place in Turin. Will it happen again next year? I don't know. But I think Irina is going to build the biggest lead ever known to man going into that FS that she could WITHDRAW from the damn event and still win. That's how discouraging all this is, to me anyway.

I think it is a concern, Red Dog. But, Irina has been skating very well. If she has more Turin like skates or worse and still gets high 7s and low 8s, then I will be a bit suspicious. So far, she is earning high scores in these competitions by blowing everyone else entered out of the water. So.....we still have COR, the GPF and Europeans to see what happens with Slutskaya.

R.D. · Nov 19, 2005

Yes...I agree. It certainly is a waiting game that we all have to play.

And yes, Irina has rightfully won her events. But do (did) her scores NEED to be that high? I don't intend for that one to be answered...it's just the voice of my own personal thought process.

I'm obviously not Irina's biggest or craziest fan- far from it. But if Irina does indeed knock it down, let her win. But not with more than is necessary to seal victory. This is where my gripe is. It makes it even tougher to like a skater I already have feelings against.

Something else just occurred to me, also. I think the Cop will do more to confuse the general public at the OLYs. The casual fan, seeing the system in use for the first (or second) time will NOT know what a "good" score is. At least under 6.0 EVERYONE know that a 6.0 meant perfection. But if Irina should get 70 points in the SP, the average fan WON'T know to cry foul. (We will, though, if we feel it's not justified.) The only exception I see to this is that if Irina skates poorly and everyone else does well, and she is STILL ahead. But who knows- we'll see.

Ladies Short

Doggygirl

gezando

curious

Piel

On Edge

Joesitz (RIP)

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

Doggygirl

Doggygirl

JonnyCoop

nymkfan51

lulu

mzheng

R.D.

gezando

Mathman

Lanie

R.D.

BronzeisGolden

R.D.

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