- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Buttle had a disasterous long program at Skate Canada. What held him up there and probably gave him gold here is that intricate program which he skates well to.slutskayafan21 said:
Joubert does need the quad(s).
Joe
Men's Free Skate
- Thread starter SailorGalaxia518
- Start date
Joubert does need the quad(s).
Joe
So had he here.Joesitz said:
NO quad (had a splat on it), NO 3axel (stepped out of the first, popped the second). NO 3/3. Still did he get about the same technical score than Brian who hit a quad, a 3axel, a 3/3.
I'm more than fed up with the CoP !!!
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- Joined
- Sep 20, 2003
Oh my! that's messed up Mehdi! Tsk tsk, I hope they get this straightened out.
Chiper is SUCH an outstanding skater. His programs have always been some of the best in the world. Now he's finally pulled it all together
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2003
I definitely look forward to seeing this Chipper fellow.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Mehdi - It was that bad.... I think Buttle needs to give the medal to David Wilson.Mehdi said:
What happens to Brian and the PCS scores?
Joe
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2004
That's great for Ghorgi, I haven't seen him on American TV in 4-5 years! Looking forward to seeing him again. I always cheer for the guys who stick around and work hard.
Buttle got lucky again. There's something wrong when a world silver medalist can't produce a required element. I felt the same way when Mike Weiss won the US Nationals (wasn't it the 2002?.
I am sorry I just don't like his skating (apart from spinning). I am sorry, you have to be able to do a 3 axel - and more often I see a splat from him. Of course I will reserve my final opinion till I see the program but in the meantime I am very disappointed for Brian. Just seems to me Jeff gets held up a lot.
Yana
Buttle got lucky again. There's something wrong when a world silver medalist can't produce a required element. I felt the same way when Mike Weiss won the US Nationals (wasn't it the 2002?.
I am sorry I just don't like his skating (apart from spinning). I am sorry, you have to be able to do a 3 axel - and more often I see a splat from him. Of course I will reserve my final opinion till I see the program but in the meantime I am very disappointed for Brian. Just seems to me Jeff gets held up a lot.
Yana
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Jeff & Joubert
Another one of those, sort of, "best of the worst" things, at least on paper.
Brian, known for his strength in jumping more than non-jump elements got credit (for better and worse) for 4T, 3A, 3F/3T, 3Z, 2A/1T, 3R, 3S, 3F. The "net" GOE for all of this was +.34 if my math is right. Noticeably absent for the "jump" guy was a 3 jump combo, and only 2 combos in total when 3 are allowed. And of course the 2A/1T stands out.
Brian's non-jump elements (where at least I sort of expect him to be a bit weaker) were 4 L3's, 1 L2, and 1L1. + GOE of 1.1 for all of them combined.
Jeff, known for his strength in non-jumps had 3 L4's, 2 L3's and 1 L2. Higher base, and net + GOE of 2.9 for that.
Not a good Jeff day for jumps. He got credit for 4T, 3A/2T SEQ, 3Z/2T/2R, 1A, 3R, 3Z, 3F, 3S/2T. He fell on the 4T and had a major issue on the sequence, the 1A and some sort of problem on the 3F, netting out a total GOE for jumps of -5.9, which includes the additional 1pt deduction for the fall.
So...while I totally agree that it's disappointing to see a Men's gold medal given for that sort of craptacular jump performance, it's even sadder to me that the "jumper" didn't bring it on either. If Brian is going to rely so heavily on jumping prowess to win, he needs to get a little more prowess going on I think.
And at the same time, I hope Buttle figures out what jumps he CAN do well, and starts just doing those. Including a nicely done 3A.
DG
Another one of those, sort of, "best of the worst" things, at least on paper.
Brian, known for his strength in jumping more than non-jump elements got credit (for better and worse) for 4T, 3A, 3F/3T, 3Z, 2A/1T, 3R, 3S, 3F. The "net" GOE for all of this was +.34 if my math is right. Noticeably absent for the "jump" guy was a 3 jump combo, and only 2 combos in total when 3 are allowed. And of course the 2A/1T stands out.
Brian's non-jump elements (where at least I sort of expect him to be a bit weaker) were 4 L3's, 1 L2, and 1L1. + GOE of 1.1 for all of them combined.
Jeff, known for his strength in non-jumps had 3 L4's, 2 L3's and 1 L2. Higher base, and net + GOE of 2.9 for that.
Not a good Jeff day for jumps. He got credit for 4T, 3A/2T SEQ, 3Z/2T/2R, 1A, 3R, 3Z, 3F, 3S/2T. He fell on the 4T and had a major issue on the sequence, the 1A and some sort of problem on the 3F, netting out a total GOE for jumps of -5.9, which includes the additional 1pt deduction for the fall.
So...while I totally agree that it's disappointing to see a Men's gold medal given for that sort of craptacular jump performance, it's even sadder to me that the "jumper" didn't bring it on either. If Brian is going to rely so heavily on jumping prowess to win, he needs to get a little more prowess going on I think.
And at the same time, I hope Buttle figures out what jumps he CAN do well, and starts just doing those. Including a nicely done 3A.
DG
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
But even so, it was the program components that won it for Jeff (75.30 to 71.80 in PCS, mid to high sevens vs mid to low sevens). IMHO Brian just must get better music and choreography before the Olympics. Copy Plushenko, not Yagudin. (Buttle, on the other hand, can do a passable Yags and get away with it.)
MM
MM
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Mathman said:
Very true on the PCS/TES (my point was more about jumps / non-jumps and all that yada yada...). I while I would LOVE to start seeing some men's gold medals going to men who do 2 clean (or very close to clean) performances, I don't argue this one either, at least not according to the score sheets. Buttle deserves his PCS for what he accomplishes that is so musical (TO the music) in his programs. That timing has to be incredibly difficult v. doing difficult things with music in the background. (Sorry Yagbert, you're included in that group).
Brian needs to stop the whining, and learn how to work the system in front of him. He "whines" that the quad should be worth more. That is one element of his 14, and he did not even do THAT one element cleanly today. If he's pinning his excellence on one quad, then IMO he should put his money where his mouth is, and at least do a clean one. OOPS. Am I being particularly hard on him ONLY because he's the top contender for Rusty Hanger awards so far this year????? I might be exhibiting bias here.
DG
Brian's getting raked over the coals for his outspoken words after this event, but I love it. Damn it turns into a dreary snoozefest when all of the skaters say the same boring lines over and over and over and....
Brian is PISSED the quad isn't getting more points. He's worked his entire career to master it (admittedly they've been a bit more 'slippery' the past year than previously), and grew up admiring the Russian champions that could peel them off successfully over and over and over....
He's one of the skaters that sees skating as a bit more of an athletic event than an artistic one, and COP is drubbing him on that stance. In his defense he has worked his *** off the past six months to get better at his spins and learn more intricate footwork, etc. I rue the day we see the next man atop the Olympic podium who not only doesn't manage a quad at the entire event....but doesn't even squeak out a clean triple-axel. But then again, I may be one of those rare people who Buttle's skating does absolutely nothing for, but it's not because I'm biased against a Canadian champion as I adore Sandhu and am really digging Rochette. But Buttle as the future of men's skating? I hope not.
Brian is PISSED the quad isn't getting more points. He's worked his entire career to master it (admittedly they've been a bit more 'slippery' the past year than previously), and grew up admiring the Russian champions that could peel them off successfully over and over and over....
He's one of the skaters that sees skating as a bit more of an athletic event than an artistic one, and COP is drubbing him on that stance. In his defense he has worked his *** off the past six months to get better at his spins and learn more intricate footwork, etc. I rue the day we see the next man atop the Olympic podium who not only doesn't manage a quad at the entire event....but doesn't even squeak out a clean triple-axel. But then again, I may be one of those rare people who Buttle's skating does absolutely nothing for, but it's not because I'm biased against a Canadian champion as I adore Sandhu and am really digging Rochette. But Buttle as the future of men's skating? I hope not.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
breaks my heart to see Tim just off the podium
and Mikey
and Mikey
Based on the video clips:
Buttle: WOW, what an interpretation again!!! And his choreography is sooo beautiful... It though disturbs me a lot in this new system that with so many mistakes in jumping a skater is getting such high scores. A totally balanced skater should be an ideal, and Jeff lacks a quad and a triple axel... In this event it is really funny if one compares the ladies winner to men´s winner technically... The scoring system still needs some changes!
Joubert: Compared to previous season´s choreography there is an improvement in this one in the sense that it really tries to make him look less wooden. It though does not succeed totally, in my opinion. In my eyes this choreography also looks old-fashioned compared to Buttle´s CoP-friendly one. I have always found the toe-picking footwork boring and lots of times also really ridiculous looking....
Buttle: WOW, what an interpretation again!!! And his choreography is sooo beautiful... It though disturbs me a lot in this new system that with so many mistakes in jumping a skater is getting such high scores. A totally balanced skater should be an ideal, and Jeff lacks a quad and a triple axel... In this event it is really funny if one compares the ladies winner to men´s winner technically... The scoring system still needs some changes!
Joubert: Compared to previous season´s choreography there is an improvement in this one in the sense that it really tries to make him look less wooden. It though does not succeed totally, in my opinion. In my eyes this choreography also looks old-fashioned compared to Buttle´s CoP-friendly one. I have always found the toe-picking footwork boring and lots of times also really ridiculous looking....
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- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I had been trying to figure out what quality it was about Joubert's programs in the last two years that made his skating leave me cold, and that's exactly it. His last two LP's have looked dated. (Although he's improved a lot in the spins department.) Lots of stroke, stroke, stroke into jumps.Jaana said:
Live, he still has power, and that is what most impressed me in his TEB program, because it's so visceral. But the contents, ugh. Although given the theme, I'm surprised there was a little toe stepping as there was. But the program doesn't hold together; it's a bunch of disparate elements.
After the Men's program ended, the press swarmed him, and he was on camera for over 15 minutes, which is quite long. I figured he must have been saying something to hold their interest
Chiper was wonderful; I'm glad he skated a strong LP to earn a medal. I hope the French media took the opportunity to interview the entire French-speaking podium.
I really like Contesti, too. That kid can dance, and he moves very well across the ice. And Dobrin has fire in his belly, but enough elegance to temper what could be dramatic excesses.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Hockeyfan - I forgot that you were there. How badly was Buttle's errors? It seems from the posts that it was a battle between choreographies.
Joe
Joe
Chiper: I was very happy that he medalled! WOW, really enjoyable interpretation, very suitable music for him. I think this was the programme I enjoyed most of all men in Bombard event.
Weiss: His techic was not good, but he sure can interpret music and also has charisma!!! And I loved his long hair...
I´d put it like this: He might not have medalled in ladies´ event...
Weiss: His techic was not good, but he sure can interpret music and also has charisma!!! And I loved his long hair...
Joesitz said:
I´d put it like this: He might not have medalled in ladies´ event...
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Joesitz said:
Not many Joe, I bet. Skating is so little known, spread and seen in Romania, probably I could count 20-25 more popular sports in a few seconds....
In the old days (system), we used to see skating only at the Olympics, so every 4 years! These days, coverage is much better, because the Eurosport on cable.
Skating arenas I could count on my fingers (at one hand), just think that our hockey league was composed always of the same 4 teams, from 3 cities, playing each other to death in the championship. And this is a country of 22 millions...and pretty good achievements in sports in general.
I was lucky enough to live on the Hungarian border, where I could see coverage on their TV of all Euros, most of the Worlds and all the Olympics is skating.
Considering all these, the accomplishment for example of Cornel Gheorghe (8th at Worlds in 1993 at Prague) is quite something!
Chiper I know lives and trains in Switzerland, where he has much better conditions and I hope with this result under his belt, he will get his confidence up, so he could repeat such results.
Herios - Joseph
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- Joined
- Jan 24, 2004
Kasey said:
Count me in as well. I made a mistake to post something last year to the effect that his choice of music for long (Phillip Glass?) did nothing for me and then I got accused of not understanding music! I guess being anti-Canadian is next.
Like Jaana, it bothers me that such high scores are awarded for a skater who makes so many mistakes.
Yana
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
It's a matter of taste, Yana. One doesn't have to love anything but the classics, but to remain in good taste, one should not knock the modernists. I don't like all Glass the same as I don't like all Verdi.STL_Blues_fan said:
Joe
