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Thread: Very unlucky Arakawa!!!

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe
    The ISU Selection process for the Grand Prix:

    http://www.usfigureskating.org/Story...5740&type=news

    There have been some changes in the ISU rules relative to the Grand Prix as of this season, in that the top 10 skaters/teams in each discipline are considered SEEDED and are required to do two events.

    Of course, what is different about this season is also that the top 6 seeds can't do 3 events this year.
    Thanks for the link.

  2. #17
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    Shizuka finishing 9th at worlds last year was why she ended up with bad GP spots. NHK didn't pick her so she had to go to 2 GP's with 2 top 6 skaters at them. At CoC she was suppose to go againt Irina and Michelle. Got Sasha at TEB.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LBC
    Shizuka finishing 9th at worlds last year was why she ended up with bad GP spots. NHK didn't pick her so she had to go to 2 GP's with 2 top 6 skaters at them. At CoC she was suppose to go againt Irina and Michelle. Got Sasha at TEB.
    NHK should have taken her, maybe they have given up on here though.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LBC
    Shizuka finishing 9th at worlds last year was why she ended up with bad GP spots. NHK didn't pick her so she had to go to 2 GP's with 2 top 6 skaters at them. At CoC she was suppose to go againt Irina and Michelle. Got Sasha at TEB.
    I'm still not sure who does the original picking? I'm not interested in any of the host countries. I want to know who picked Lambiel, Poykio, Lindemann, etc. for their respective assignments?

    Joe

  5. #20
    Hopeless fan Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    I'm still not sure who does the original picking? I'm not interested in any of the host countries. I want to know who picked Lambiel, Poykio, Lindemann, etc. for their respective assignments?

    Joe
    If I understand the linked document from the USFSA correctly (thanks Euterpre!) then Lambiel would have been either invited by a host country, or drawn by a host country per the "seeded skaters" process. Lindemann was not in the top 6 at worlds, but fell in the 7 - 12 placement category where each host country must pick 2 skaters from this group for each dicipline.

    I don't know that the details for the seeded skaters about who was "invited" v. who was "drawn" among the seeded skaters is formally made available. In the attached link, an example is provided which explains how the MK, Sasha and Angela got their assignments (the original ones before withdrawls, etc. took their toll) for SA.

    DG

  6. #21
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    Reform is needed, use the COP total points

    While the ISU is using COP and its points system to score the GP events, they still rely on placings to assign points for the events. The placings system is a leftover from 6.0 and is causing this silly outcome where lower ranked skaters that place high at weak events come out on top of better skaters that place lower at very strong events.
    If they used the total points from the events instead of the placings then the top six at the end would be a more honest reflection of the best performances skated at the individual events and it wouldn't matter where or against who they skated.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripleflutz
    While the ISU is using COP and its points system to score the GP events, they still rely on placings to assign points for the events. The placings system is a leftover from 6.0 and is causing this silly outcome where lower ranked skaters that place high at weak events come out on top of better skaters that place lower at very strong events.
    If they used the total points from the events instead of the placings then the top six at the end would be a more honest reflection of the best performances skated at the individual events and it wouldn't matter where or against who they skated.
    You should write to the ISU before they pick the official participants in the GP Finals. The people at the ISU don't have the brains to figure this out (common sense alone should have told them, at the very least, to check how COP would affect this aspect of the competition, but obviously, even this they don't have).

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggygirl
    If I understand the linked document from the USFSA correctly (thanks Euterpre!) then Lambiel would have been either invited by a host country, or drawn by a host country per the "seeded skaters" process. Lindemann was not in the top 6 at worlds, but fell in the 7 - 12 placement category where each host country must pick 2 skaters from this group for each dicipline.

    I don't know that the details for the seeded skaters about who was "invited" v. who was "drawn" among the seeded skaters is formally made available. In the attached link, an example is provided which explains how the MK, Sasha and Angela got their assignments (the original ones before withdrawls, etc. took their toll) for SA.

    DG
    Thank you for the explanation but unfortunately but I'm still at sea.

    Lambiel who was the World Champion and quite high in the World Rankings had to be invited by a Host Country. Am I to now think the ISU did not pick him for TEB? It was the French Federation? If so, I would assume that other host countries would like to sport the world champ at their GPs. And I would assume that with 6 offers, he could choose the ones he wanted. Would that be correct?

    But he was among the seeded skaters so why wasn't he drawn from the pack? and what if a Host Country did not want him?

    It's easy when we are talking about Big Feds but Switzerland is not a Big Fed.

    Joe

  9. #24
    Hopeless fan Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Thank you for the explanation but unfortunately but I'm still at sea.

    Lambiel who was the World Champion and quite high in the World Rankings had to be invited by a Host Country. Am I to now think the ISU did not pick him for TEB? It was the French Federation? If so, I would assume that other host countries would like to sport the world champ at their GPs. And I would assume that with 6 offers, he could choose the ones he wanted. Would that be correct?

    But he was among the seeded skaters so why wasn't he drawn from the pack? and what if a Host Country did not want him?

    It's easy when we are talking about Big Feds but Switzerland is not a Big Fed.

    Joe
    All of my comments are qualified with "If I understand the rules correctly."

    There are 6 seeded skaters in each dicipline - based on 1 - 6 placement at World's.

    The host Feds for the whole GP series have a draw, which determines the "order" in which they get to select or draw people.

    They invite 2 seeded skaters for each (in the order drawn by host country), then draw 2 seeded skaters for each (in the order drawn by host country.)

    In my own interpretation, this spreads the top six skaters across the 6 GP qualifying events somewhat evenly.

    The next phase places the 7 - 12 ranked skaters from the previous World's somewhat evenly. Then the rest of the process fills out the entries for each GP competition.

    In my eyes, the things that cause uneven events are somewhere in the following:

    1) Unexpected withdrawls. i.e. SA, where the two seeded skaters both withdrew due to injury.

    2) A seeded skater skating sub-par compared to the World Championships. (think Weir - and we all know about the injury contributing to this outcome)

    3) Event timing - In terms of winning an event as an underdog, it seems (just from recent history aka last season and this one) that an underdog is more likely to emerge in the early season events. I think the ante goes up in later events, as programs are perfected. But there are huge holes in this theory - aka Irina who seems to bring the A-Game most everywhere she goes regardless of timing within the season.

    The "luck of the draw" is a big part of this, but I'm not sure how the rules could be changed to make it work better, especially when you consider the withdrawl realities.

    On another note, I am hesitant to support the idea that COP scores rather than placements at the events should be used to determine GP Finalists. That would give a clear advantage to skaters participating (by federation selection or luck of the draw) in later events, as programs and subsequent scores tend to improve over the course of the season. So I can understand why "it is the way it is" as imperfect as the current system might seem. Under the current rules, there is at least a balance between placement and COP scores (on tie breakers after the highest placement one)

    DG
    Last edited by Doggygirl; 11-29-2005 at 06:07 PM.

  10. #25
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    With one event to go, it seems a virtual certainty that Ando will bump Arakawa and the final list will be

    Slutskaya
    Asada
    Czisny
    Ando
    Sokolova
    Rochette

    Rochette looks fairly secure, although Liashenko could surprise us in NHK.

    I like the current system, where the GP final can be billed basically as a showdown among the winners of each of the six events (with some second place finishers mixed in because someone might win two events).

    Point totals are overrated, if you ask me.

    MM

  11. #26
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    I think the tiebreakers should be changed. That is why Shizuka isn't going. In other sports head to head competition is the first tie breaker. Shizuka beat Joannie at TEB. Shizuka's total points are higher than Joannie. The fact that Joannie highest finish was a 2nd and Shizuka a 3rd should be lower on the list.

  12. #27
    Custom User Title CDMM1991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    With one event to go, it seems a virtual certainty that Ando will bump Arakawa and the final list will be

    Slutskaya
    Asada
    Czisny
    Ando
    Sokolova
    Rochette

    Rochette looks fairly secure, although Liashenko could surprise us in NHK.

    I like the current system, where the GP final can be billed basically as a showdown among the winners of each of the six events (with some second place finishers mixed in because someone might win two events).

    Point totals are overrated, if you ask me.

    MM
    What does Liashenko need to knock Joannie?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDMM1991
    What does Liashenko need to knock Joannie?
    Second place at NHK with a total of more than 164.82 points.(She got 160.70 at Cuo if China, where she finished 4th.)

  14. #29
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    NHK for the Ladies will be verrrrry interesting.

    What about the Men. What does Evan need to qualify for Finals?

    Joe

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LBC
    I think the tiebreakers should be changed. That is why Shizuka isn't going. In other sports head to head competition is the first tie breaker. Shizuka beat Joannie at TEB. Shizuka's total points are higher than Joannie. The fact that Joannie highest finish was a 2nd and Shizuka a 3rd should be lower on the list.
    I agree. At the very least make head to head competition a tiebreaker over highest placing, if the placement points are tied.

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