Age Limit | Golden Skate

Age Limit

Linny

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Phil Hersh's article calls the Olys age limit the "Lipinsky rule" but there is a niggling feeling in my brain that the age rule was voted on and set to go in effect before Tara appeared at the Olys. Didn't the commentators say, repeatedly, that if she won she would be the youngest Oly champ in perpetuity because of the age ruling that would go into effect the following year?
Linny
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I don't remember it that way. As I recall it, comments like that started coming after the new rule was announced. (?)

BTW, I am pretty sure that Hersh is wrong in his article when he says that Tara was 14 when she won in Nagono. Tara was born on June 10th, 1982, and turned 15 on June 10th, 1997.

The new rule says you must turn 15 by July 1st. So Tara would have been eligible, even under the new rule.

So a skater could still beat Tara's record if her birthday were between June 11 and June 30.

Is this right? I think so.

Mathman :)
 

euterpe

Medalist
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
I believe the new rule (15 by July 1) took effect for the 1996-1997 season. But since Tara had already skated at Worlds 1996 at 13, she was grandfathered in for Worlds 1997 even though she was still only 14.

The ISU allowed the Jr. Worlds-medalist loophole for underage skaters from the 1996-1997 season til the 2000-2001 season, when the loophole was permanently eliminated.
 
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Tara won the Worlds at 15 and then won the Olympic gold just before she turn sixteen she even says that on Tara's offical Myspace.
 

euterpe

Medalist
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
If Tara was born June 10, 1982, then in MARCH 1996, in her first trip to Worlds, she was 13 years and 9.5 months old. In MARCH 1997, when she won Worlds, she was 14 years and 9.5 months old. In FEBRUARY 1998, when she won the Olympics, she was 15 years and 8.5 months old.
 

nicole_l

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Probably a male dancer.
I'm pretty sure Maria Butryskaya was the oldest Ladie's World Champion in 1999 at the ripe old age of 26 (or something).
 

tripleflutz

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Tara won 97 Worlds when she was still 14, and then won the Olympics when she was 15
If Tara was born 6/10/82, then she turned 15 three weeks before what would have been the July 1 1997 deadline. So even if the rule was in effect in 1998, Tara could still have gone to the Olympics.
If the rule was in effect in 1997 then Tara couldn't have skated at 1997 Worlds.
The rule may have been sparked by Tara's World Championship victory, but had nothing to do with her win at the Olympics.
.
In addition this is an ISU rule, not an IOC rule. The IOC doesn't have any age restrictions on skaters or anyone else that I know of, so we may see an ISU reversal on this issue if Japan decides that they want to fight for Mao's right to skate in Turin. If the ISU refuses, the Japan Fed. might take the ISU/IOC to court to force the ISU to allow her entry, or order the IOC to accept her without the ISU's ok. Either way, thjis could be a battle between Japan and $peedy. And any defeat for $peedy would be a victory for skating in general.
They could argue that the ISU can set age requirements for their own competitions like Worlds, but that only the IOC has the right to do so for the Olympics.
For the overall good of skating, I'd like to see $peedy lose one and possibly make some long term enemies in Japan.
Besides, it would be interesting to see if Mao can derail Irina in Torino, although I think that the way Irina is scoring nothing is likely to stop her.
 
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FreeKatie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
The rule was posted before Lipinski was in the Olympics, but she was exempt because she had already competed at a World Championships the year before (in Canada I believe)

Edit - actually the rule was implemented before she won Worlds - she should not have been at worlds in 97 but she was let in with the "grandfather" rule because she had been at the previous world championships, before the new rule was implemented.

I think she would have been old enough to go to the Olympics either way.
 
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euterpe

Medalist
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
tripleflutz said:
Tara won 97 Worlds when she was still 14, and then won the Olympics when she was 15
If Tara was born 6/10/82, then she turned 15 three weeks before what would have been the July 1 1997 deadline. So even if the rule was in effect in 1998, Tara could still have gone to the Olympics.
If the rule was in effect in 1997 then Tara couldn't have skated at 1997 Worlds.
The rule may have been sparked by Tara's World Championship victory, but had nothing to do with her win at the Olympics.
.
In addition this is an ISU rule, not an IOC rule. The IOC doesn't have any age restrictions on skaters or anyone else that I know of, so we may see an ISU reversal on this issue if Japan decides that they want to fight for Mao's right to skate in Turin. If the ISU refuses, the Japan Fed. might take the ISU/IOC to court to force the ISU to allow her entry, or order the IOC to accept her without the ISU's ok. Either way, thjis could be a battle between Japan and $peedy. And any defeat for $peedy would be a victory for skating in general.
They could argue that the ISU can set age requirements for their own competitions like Worlds, but that only the IOC has the right to do so for the Olympics.
For the overall good of skating, I'd like to see $peedy lose one and possibly make some long term enemies in Japan.
Besides, it would be interesting to see if Mao can derail Irina in Torino, although I think that the way Irina is scoring nothing is likely to stop her.

The IOC doesn't set the ground rules for any sport. It's the international association for each sport that sets the rules, and the ISU is the international association for figure skating and speed skating. The Japanese Federation can appeal to the Court of Appeals for Sport (CAS), but they aren't likely to win.

In any case, the JF has already said they will not fight the ISU rules.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
euterpe said:
I believe the new rule (15 by July 1) took effect for the 1996-1997 season. But since Tara had already skated at Worlds 1996 at 13, she was grandfathered in for Worlds 1997 even though she was still only 14.

The ISU allowed the Jr. Worlds-medalist loophole for underage skaters from the 1996-1997 season til the 2000-2001 season, when the loophole was permanently eliminated.

That's exactly how remember the rule - it was Lipinskis participation at 1996 that got her in to the next worlds.

Ant
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
nicole_l said:
Probably a male dancer.
I'm pretty sure Maria Butryskaya was the oldest Ladie's World Champion in 1999 at the ripe old age of 26 (or something).

I think that Butyrsakaya was 29 when she won worlds.

In terms of oldest skaters i think it would probably be Tikhonov who is something like 33, Zhao Hongbo is also over 30, is he around 31 or 32.

Ant
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
crazyaboutelvis said:
Since we are talking about age.Who was the oldest eligable skater?:scratch:

Well, Ulrich Salchow was born in Aug. 1877. He started competing at Worlds shortly after it started in the late 1890s, so about age 20, and won his first title at 24 in 1902. He then won the 1908 (summer) Olympics at age 31. More impressively, though he came back and competed (but didn't medal) at the 1920 Olympics, at which point he would have been 42 or 43 (that was also a summer Olympics, but I don't know what date it was held).

There were probably other middle-aged competitors in those days, when the sport was more technical and less athletic.
 

thisthingcalledlove

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
It's in a results page somewhere, but there was a man who won the silver medal in the Olympics as a forty-one year old.

When eligibility was being changed (reinstatements allowed) the Protopopovs (this was actually written in Sandra Bezic's book) considered making a run for Swiss nationals (since they have since become Swiss citizens) and maybe making the Olympics. They would've made it in their...late fifties/early sixties!
 

Linny

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Oldest competitor

well, she's not a figure skater, but Mrs. Lorna Johnstone rode dressage in the Munich Olympics at aged 70.
Linny
 

Jhar55

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
With the age limit for Worlds and Oly maybe ther shoudl be a age limit to enter National on the Senior level. Just a thought then there would be question wether or not a skater can compete at Worlds or Oly.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Who should impose age limits at the national level? All countries? Any country that feels like it? Just the USA?

A lot of smaller countries have few enough skaters that they're happy to have anyone who can land a triple jump compete in their senior championships.

In the US is so happens that the competition especially in the ladies division is so stiff that anyone who feels ready to compete at the senior level at age 12 or 13 or 14 or 15 is probably pretty darn good. Often they have already medaled, sometimes gold (Sarah Hughes) at the junior level and it would be boring for them to compete another year in juniors domestically. Or they prefer the looser requirements of the senior vs. the junior short program. Or they have some other reason for wanting to finish their tests as soon as possible and may or may not also have good competitive results.

I've seen some very young skaters locally compete at a level where they're really not competitive and wonder why they don't stay back with their age group where they would place much better. Obviously international age restrictions are not an issue for these skaters. But they may have other reasons for wanting to test up quickly. They might have reason to expect that their bodies, their finances, their location if a parental job change is anticipated, etc., might not allow them to train and perform well enough even to pass the tests at a later age. They might realize that competitive success is not going to be the area where they can excel, but passing tests in general, or becoming the youngest senior in their area, will give them something to be proud of. They might be deluded about their actual potential. They might just want to play with the big kids. They might be planning to compete in and someday for a parent's homeland and need to finish the US tests so they can transfer that credential to a different country and not have to start at the bottom of that country's test structure. We might approve of some of these reasons, disapprove of some, and be indifferent to still others. Ultimately it's the skater's (and parents' and coach's) decision, which they'll have to live with.

Historically the USFSA has left it up to each skater when to test up. Except that they have sometimes had rules that skaters MUST test up after winning nationals at a lower level.

As long as everyone knows going into Nationals what international events they are or aren't eligible for by age, where's the problem?
 

Serena

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
The age rule is ridiculous. If a skater's abilities qualify them, their age shouldn't matter.
 
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