LADIES Free from TV | Page 2 | Golden Skate

LADIES Free from TV

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Rgirl said:
Specifically for Sasha, here's how I evaluated her Spiral Step sequence based on edges, speed, and positions...(etc.)
JFC, what a post, Rgirl!! :rock: Makes me glad I got up this morning after all!

MM :)
 

Frau Muller

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Funny how ESPN failed to mention that Sasha's free program was deemed THIRD best (behind Arakawa's)> hee-hee....

I totally agree with the judges' scores for Sasha's presentation, versus Mao's. Sasha is a cold automaton. Lines & high-hiked legs alone do not cut it. Mao was ALIVE & charismatic, in addition to showing great extensions. LIFE above ROBOTS. Furthermore....see the lean of Mao's edges, compared with Sasha's. Speed, flow, lean, carefreeness....that, too, is part of the presentation scores. Not just hiking-up of legs, in a self-contained world.

Wake up & smell the coffee regarding Sasha's aloofness (& Johnny Weir's, too). Just cuz they're AMERICANS doesn't give them instant charisma & warmth.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Frau Muller said:
Funny how ESPN failed to mention that Sasha's free program was deemed THIRD best (behind Arakawa's)> hee-hee....

I totally agree with the judges' scores for Sasha's presentation, versus Mao's. Sasha is a cold automaton. Lines & high-hiked legs alone do not cut it. Mao was ALIVE & charismatic, in addition to showing great extensions. LIFE above ROBOTS. Furthermore....see the lean of Mao's edges, compared with Sasha's. Speed, flow, lean, carefreeness....that, too, is part of the presentation scores. Not just hiking-up of legs.

FINALLY, a non "Cohen-was-robbed-boo-hoo" post!!! :rock: :rock: :laugh:
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Mathman said:
Referee Mr. Paolo PIZZOCARI Italy
Technical Controller Ms. Ann HARDY-THOMAS France
Technical Specialist Ms. Pirjo UIMONEN Finland
Assistant Technical Specialist Mr. Scott DAVIS USA

Judge No.1 Ms. Marina BESCHEA ROM
Judge No.2 Mr. Francis BETSCH FRA
Judge No.3 Mr. Rolf PIPOH GER
Judge No.4 Ms. Gale TANGER USA
Judge No.5 Mr. William THOMPSON CAN
Judge No.6 Ms. Mieko FUJIMORI JPN
Judge No.7 Ms. Marina SANAIA RUS
Judge No.8 Ms. Irina MEDVEDEVA UKR
Judge No.9 Ms. Katarina HENRIKSSON SWE
Judge No.10 Ms. Olga ZAKOVA CZE
Thanks MM -The Technical Specialist is the actual Caller (Yes?)

Regional Groupings: 3 Eastern Euros; 2 Central Euros; 2 Western Euros;
2 N.amricans; 1 Asian.

Does anyone see anything here? I'm basically ok with this set up.

Joe
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Hi Rgirl Caller! (I like you in that role!!)

To add to MM's clarification of the technical panel role....

Maybe this was your intent to mix the roles of the technical panel and the judges in your descriptions of the various elements, because I liked reading your evaluations! But just in case there is a misunderstanding, the technical people have nothing to do with evaluating the quality of an element performed. As an example, a level 3 spiral is called based on meeting the defined criteria - number of postions, edge changes, meeting the time requirement for holding positions, etc. So it is possible to view a great spiral (in terms of how it is performed), a mediocre spiral and a craptacular spiral that are all level three in difficulty. The GOE that the judges assign is where to look on the "quality front" where reward/penalty is to be given for things you mention like speed, deep edges, and all of that.

If you look at the spirals for Mao, Shiz and Sasha, yes they were all called as level 3. In terms of the "quality" here's how the judges called it (using all 10). Mao received 3 GOE of +1, and 7 GOE of 0. After factoring she got a total score of 3.3 for this element.

Shiz received 5 +2 GOE and 5 +1 GOE for hers. So after factoring she got a total of 3.9 points for this element.

Sasha received 10 +2 GOE for her spiral, for a total score on this element of 4.1 points.

I will wait for someone who is better at assessing the technical composition of each of the spirals for an opinion on whether each of these 3 spirals met the ISU rules for L3. But on the GOE side, I think I'm OK with how the judges handled the GOE.

Before I throw in the towel and call the NJS a mess, I want to see a live competition. The reports I read posted by people who were at the event seemed to have far less issue with the ladies results than those of us watching on TV only. And I've heard time and again that speed and ice coverage are harder to determine on TV than live, and I've also read several posts where people comment that Sasha sometimes looks better on TV than she does live - primarily due to the speed / coverage issues.

At any rate, I'm giving it more time...

DG
 

kyla2

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Wow!

I can't believe it, all of us agree (with one exception-Oh what a surprise). This is very heartening to see such a wonderful skate from Sasha given the respect it deserves. Shizuka too. They are two gorgeous skaters.
 

Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Frau Muller said:
Funny how ESPN failed to mention that Sasha's free program was deemed THIRD best (behind Arakawa's)> hee-hee....

I totally agree with the judges' scores for Sasha's presentation, versus Mao's. Sasha is a cold automaton. Lines & high-hiked legs alone do not cut it. Mao was ALIVE & charismatic, in addition to showing great extensions. LIFE above ROBOTS. Furthermore....see the lean of Mao's edges, compared with Sasha's. Speed, flow, lean, carefreeness....that, too, is part of the presentation scores. Not just hiking-up of legs, in a self-contained world.

Wake up & smell the coffee regarding Sasha's aloofness (& Johnny Weir's, too). Just cuz they're AMERICANS doesn't give them instant charisma & warmth.

Generally, I'd agree with you about Sasha's cold presentation, but that wasn't the case in Paris... (please see Rgirl's EXTREMLY elegant post for the reasons why....)

I do, however, totally disagree regarding the American comment... I could say that Sasha & Johnny might be taking the "Russian Style" a bit too far, but then that might be rude to Russian fans, ya think? :sheesh:
 
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Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Frau Muller said:
Funny how ESPN failed to mention that Sasha's free program was deemed THIRD best (behind Arakawa's)> hee-hee....

I totally agree with the judges' scores for Sasha's presentation, versus Mao's. Sasha is a cold automaton. Lines & high-hiked legs alone do not cut it. Mao was ALIVE & charismatic, in addition to showing great extensions. LIFE above ROBOTS. Furthermore....see the lean of Mao's edges, compared with Sasha's. Speed, flow, lean, carefreeness....that, too, is part of the presentation scores. Not just hiking-up of legs, in a self-contained world.

Wake up & smell the coffee regarding Sasha's aloofness (& Johnny Weir's, too). Just cuz they're AMERICANS doesn't give them instant charisma & warmth.
Mao's PCS scores, which are not a substitute for the "old presentation mark," and I wish Terry Gannon would stop saying that, were generally too high, IMO.

I agree that Sasha can be what I'd call "remote," that is, concentrating too hard on not making mistakes, which usually ensures that she makes them. But aloof, remote, basically same difference.

However, this "R/J" performance was anything but aloof, remote, or robotic. I could feel Sasha's heart beating with "Romeo, Romeo, where for art thou?" through the entire program. I've also been fortunate enough to see Sasha compete live. It was the '03 Campbell's at Madison Square Garden, which usually fully deserves the name "cheesefest" by every skater's moldy performance. But at this Campbell's, Sasha debuted Tarasova's black and white "Swan Lake." New York City gets almost no competitions--venues too expensive--so the Garden was packed. I'd say Sasha blew the roof off at best and at worst gave a stunning, dramatic, heartfelt performance.

Joe and Nymkfan were also there, and I'd be interested in hearing their reactions, positive or negative.

Sasha has run hot and cold over the past four years in the "feel the depths of the program/move the audience" department. A particular low point was Nationals '03 when Sasha skated Tarasova's "Rach" program like a bendable Barbie doll.

But the question on the table is Sasha's LP at TEB compared to Asada's. Mao had that wonderful quality of a kid running around as fast as she could just because she loves to. But it was all one note, which is fine at her age. It's an "Aww, what a cutie!" kind of response, which again is fine, that is for the audience. It shouldn't elicit those kinds of scores from the judges.

However, if you muted the music, I don't think you could tell the difference between "Waltz of the Flowers" and "Snow." It lacked the breadth, 3/4 time, and largeness of the "Waltz of the Flowers." There were also a couple of "little girl" skipping type moves and the miming of the "Shhhh" finger to the mouth. I realize that's the choreography, not Asada, but those moves were out of place during "Waltz of the Flowers," and believe me, I'm the last person to insist that "Nutcracker" be performed in the traditional style. For example, I thought Ilia Kulik's choreography and skate to "Waltz of the Flowers" was brilliant. And I've done evil things myself to "Nutcracker.":)

But Asada's program was at least Balanchinesque, 20th Century "Nutcracker." Although she was Clara for all intents and purposes, she didn't skate for any of Clara's music. So, IMO, I felt Asada at least had to reflect the different qualities of the three cuts chose for her LP. Also, IMO, one doesn't get the sense of magic when the music for "Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy" starts. The third and final section is from the finale, I believe, when the characters of the third act each perform for Clara and the Prince.

However, the quality and intensity of Mao's skating for each section was the same. The music basically fools the audience into reacting as if Asada really is skating to the music of each section and therefore, she's musical. But Asada had the same energy, attack, and timing for each section. For anybody who's curious, either mute your tape, or if your mute runs "subtitles" of everything the commentators say, even on tape, so you can't see a lot of what the skater does, just turn the sound down. See if you can tell when Asada is doing "Waltz," "Sugarplum," and "Finale," especially when she stops the first, starts and stops the second, and starts the third. In a good skater, you should be able to see the musical changes reflected in her body.

As Susie Wynne said, "Because of her great jumping ability, she creates an ease for the observer and some of that immaturity in the movement is almost forgiven," a statement with which ITA. However, I also agree with Paul Wylie who noted Asada's great ice coverage and speed.

I also agree that Mao is charismatic, carefree, and that her edges and speed were superior to Sasha's in this event. Sasha's lack of speed, especially on her spins, which is usually superb, was a puzzlement to me. She's always had to work on her crossover speed and edges in order to get good flow and ice coverage. Her jumps looked more solid, but she either rushed at least one, the 3sal, because she got behind the music, which was probably due to her overall lack of speed as well as sloweness on her spins, or momentarily lost concentration or technique. These are serious problems that Sasha must solve and solve fast if she ever wants to win a World gold medal.

IMO, Asada has all the tools and she is it if you want to see a very young skater with great speed, ice coverage, phenomenal jumping ability as well as great spins, in other words, all the makings of a great skater. But she's all ingredients right now and no cake. I have no doubt she will become a gorgeous cake as she matures, but Asada's is still only the terrific and charismatic jumping bean and spinner. However, I don't think the judges should be giving her PCS and non-jump levels based on what they expect her to have or not in her jumps and spins.

I know, the following is a lousy analogy, but I'm pressed for time. Asada is rather like a donut. She's got all the things she needs around the outside, but she doesn't have the variety of communicative ability. emotional, and movement qualities she needs to carry a program. But in a year or so, I have no doubt Mao will become a full-fledged jelly donut. I warned you it was a lousy analogy.

Actually, Asada reminds me of Sasha when she was 16, but Mao is a much perkier girl and better jump technician than Sasha, much like Naomi Nari Nam was. However, Sasha has each year since the '01/02 season, increased, though with ups and downs, her performances in terms of warmth, power, tenderness, musicality, vulnerability, strength, attack, and the variety of movement qualities necessary to fully convey her "Juliet" both technically and emotionally.

For me, a skater does not have to and should not "mug" emotional expressions (I hate that) in order to get across feeling. Personally, I love Johnny Weir's skating "unto himself" as Dick Button calls it. Watching someone genuinely and deeply involved in the Zen of his or her skating is very compelling to me. Of course I enjoy the uninhibited playfulness of a Mao Asada. But I enjoy just as much and often more the lively depth of Sasha Cohen; the regal lyricism of Michelle Kwan; the powerful life force of Irina Slutskaya; the quiet power of Shizuka Arakawa, who is a completely different person and skater from what she was just three years ago. I could go on and on--and usually do--but you get the gist.

Sometimes there's nothing better than watching an energetic, creative child at play. Sometimes there's nothing better than watching a young but fully developed woman give a performance full of the experiences of joys and disappointments as well as love and heartbreak inherant in young love. There's also all the pain and happiness of maturation, and investing those experiences into her skating, Whether she is Sasha, Michelle, Shizza, or Irina, each very different from each other, but each moving the audience in her own way. I'm enjoying Mao Asada for what she is and has to offer right now, but she's not yet a "full performance nine-course dinner" like Irina, Michelle, Sasha, or Shizuka.

So, I love Asada and can't wait to see her mature. But more so, I love the "veterans," perhaps because I've seen their struggles and disappointments; their hard work leading sometimes to triumphs, sometimes to bitter disappointment in themselves. These young women have been through the gauntlet and IMO it shows in the depth with which they perform, as well as the edification and indescribable soul connection I feel from their best performances, naturally the best ones for me but not necessarily their best known ones.

Anyway, Frau Mueller, it goes without saying that you are entitled to your opinion and I mine. It's one of the things I love best about GS. One can say exactly what one thinks of a skater, within the GS guidelines natch:) and by doing so, if I can keep an open mind (I try at least, lol) I can see things in skaters and feel things from them I never thought I could.

That's all--freakin' finally!:laugh:

Rgirl
 
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Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Red Dog said:
FINALLY, a non "Cohen-was-robbed-boo-hoo" post!!! :rock: :rock: :laugh:

:banging:

Are you seriously serious? Disagreeing with a judging outcome isn't boo hooing... Just like being contrary for the sake of being contrary isn't always a good thing...
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Doggygirl Caller

Doggygirl said:
To add to MM's clarification of the technical panel role....

Maybe this was your intent to mix the roles of the technical panel and the judges in your descriptions of the various elements, because I liked reading your evaluations! But just in case there is a misunderstanding, the technical people have nothing to do with evaluating the quality of an element performed. As an example, a level 3 spiral is called based on meeting the defined criteria - number of postions, edge changes, meeting the time requirement for holding positions, etc. So it is possible to view a great spiral (in terms of how it is performed), a mediocre spiral and a craptacular spiral that are all level three in difficulty. The GOE that the judges assign is where to look on the "quality front" where reward/penalty is to be given for things you mention like speed, deep edges, and all of that.

If you look at the spirals for Mao, Shiz and Sasha, yes they were all called as level 3. In terms of the "quality" here's how the judges called it (using all 10). Mao received 3 GOE of +1, and 7 GOE of 0. After factoring she got a total score of 3.3 for this element.

Shiz received 5 +2 GOE and 5 +1 GOE for hers. So after factoring she got a total of 3.9 points for this element.

Sasha received 10 +2 GOE for her spiral, for a total score on this element of 4.1 points.....
DG Caller, Rgirl mind mush strikes again. I would say, "How could I forget the GOE?!" But by now we know I could ride the subway naked if I was having a bad "remember clothes?" day.

Thanks bunches and bunches, Doggygirl Caller. I feel so much better now. And I even studied the Detailed Results. Oh, well. There's a saying that the only way we learn any thing is by making mistakes. Man, I'm on my way to surpassing Einstein.:rock:

Rgirl
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Rgirl said:
But by now we know I could ride the subway naked if I was having a bad "remember clothes?" day.

Rgirl

:rofl: When that day comes, make sure you let us know!! I bet men will be tossing you millions of shiny fake bead strings!! :)

Hey, we're all partners learning about this new system. I know it's not perfect, and like any other sport involving referees, I'm sure every call is not a good call. I just like having some way to try to make sense (or not) of the outcome. The old system always left me totally ????? about why a 5.8 for one skater, and a 5.7 for another.

Long after this competition is past, if you asked me to pick one program to watch again it would more likely be Sasha's or Shiz's if I could only pick one, but probably not be Mao's. But I can see how she won the day from a competitive standpoint.

DG
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Doggygirl said:
:
Long after this competition is past, if you asked me to pick one program to watch again it would more likely be Sasha's or Shiz's if I could only pick one, but probably not be Mao's. But I can see how she won the day from a competitive standpoint.

DG

Well...i guess I was feeling similiarly just a moment ago in the Mao thread...

I think Sasha's performance was really great and given her silver (as opposed to gold) and some of the commentary I read prior to watching last night, I must say I was surprised by how good her program was. Yes she has errors to work on, and after Rgirls explanations of edges and extension, I doubt we will ever see deeper edges on her spirals (or maybe only a little deeper), but I don't think I want her to NOT extend, it is beautiful, imo, and like the commentators, I realized yesterday that I missed it. I have to say also that I think Sasha is more expressive in this program than I have seen her (or more than usual), and while she still punches out her elements and doesn't 'dance (gently/sublty) to the music' (to my eyes), i like how it works in this LP. The only thing I don't like about this LP, I mean really don't like, is the ending spins....the first of the two seems like it should end the program, but then, the music just keepssssssssssssss going with that - to me - un-nerving crescendo (like, will it end, when will it end, will SHE end with it on time????) and second spin that includes a terribly slow bielman. I would just LOVE to see that little part of the program and music changed.

Someone in some thread mentioned Marton's version of Romeo and Juliet, and I will just say I like it a lot too...

I don't know where/how I would place Sasha versus Shiz....I haven't looked at the scores yet, but I'll say that I think they look very closely (but differently) matched to me. If Shiz returns to the triple triple, and/or the triple triple double, then I think Sasha will really need to dig deep to find some more points...but I need to look at the scores to know that; but I do think Shiz has a really good program, and think she can only improve it from here. Joanie and her scores always confuse me a bit...i think her program is really really great; I think Joe said somewhere that she will have to skate totally clean to get it recognized though and I suspect he is quite right. I don't intuitively understand why Rochete is scored soooo differently from Shiz, but the great thing about NJS is when I have time, I can compare the scores and figure it out (like DG i love that, unlike DG it will likely be next season when I get to it).
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Rgirl said:
Personally, I love Johnny Weir's skating "unto himself" as Dick Button calls it. Watching someone genuinely and deeply involved in the Zen of his or her skating is very compelling to me. Of course I enjoy the uninhibited playfulness of a Mao Asada. But I enjoy just as much and often more the lively depth of Sasha Cohen; the regal lyricism of Michelle Kwan; the powerful life force of Irina Slutskaya; the quiet power of Shizuka Arakawa, who is a completely different person and skater than she was just three years ago. I could go on and on.
Go on and on! :love: Say one about Fumie!!

I know just what you mean about Johnny Weir. He does not invite you into his inner world, but he still casts a spell that you can't tear away from. (Especially his Unchained Melody exhibition last year. That's the one he should do in the Marshalls thing coming up.)

MM :)
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
However, this "R/J" performance was anything but aloof, remote, or robotic. I could feel Sasha's heart beating with "Romeo, Romeo, where for art thou?" through the entire program. I've also been fortunate enough to see Sasha compete live. It was the '03 Campbell's at Madison Square Garden, which usually fully deserves the name "cheesefest" by every skater's moldy performance. But at this Campbell's, Sasha debuted Tarasova's black and white "Swan Lake." New York City gets almost no competitions--venues too expensive--so the Garden was packed. I'd say Sasha blew the roof off at best and at worst gave a stunning, dramatic, heartfelt performance.

Joe and Nymkfan were also there, and I'd be interested in hearing their reactions, positive or negative.

Rgirl - Yes, yes, her black and white swan at the Garden was superb and I even wrote it on a thread that it was her year. And it was all through that season until the Free skate in Dortmund. No one mentioned about my remark in her Moscow Free where I said she showed a sense of warmth. She actually put a little something into the pas de deux from Nutcracker. She also got excellent PCS scores. So I was not surprised that her Roti R&J showed some feelings, and I was very pleased to see it. She has become a mature skater.

She has also become, unfortunately, overly cautious in the technical (not unlike Kwan in Nagano) The spins are slower, the jumps are not so solid, there is no attempt at a 3x3 (needs that for gold because the tech scores flow into the pcs scores) but these she can work on for the future. The program as it is works.

She was up against a little tyke who like Tara skated on a sugar rush and it just wins the heart of the spectators and I guess the judges too. But she doesn't have her at the Olys but she will have Irina and that's another story.

I think she impressed the judges with this one GP skate to remember her at the Olys. This is in her favor.

Joe
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Frau Muller said:
Funny how ESPN failed to mention that Sasha's free program was deemed THIRD best (behind Arakawa's)

IMO relative to Cohen's PCS, Arakawa wuz robbed.

Mao has great ice coverage, depth of edges and stroking efficiency, her basic skating reminds me of Fumie. IMO, Cohen always look much better on TV. I have seen both Cohen and Fumie skating live in the same competition, and Fumie's edges, speed and ability to sail through the ice is very pleasant to watch, after all ice skating is about edges and speed across the ice.

In terms of Cohen's music interpretation, IMO, Sasha's way of presenting has always been about Cohen and not the music. edited to add: IMO Cohen's presentation has always been Cohen first, music second.

I speculate if Kimmie delivers the same program. the commentators will not cry Sasha WUZ robbed. I disagree with Wylie that there is a budding rivalry between Mao and Kimmie, so far Mao beat Kimmie everytime they met. I do hope the Japanese federation will not go forward with the ridiculous idea of arguing for Mao to go to the Olys. Mao needs to stay away from the spotlight and train like hell for her overall packaging. Sigh.. somehow the packaging thing seems not to be as important to Japanese skaters. They all want to be like Midori ito, that is why landing that triple axel is so important to them, although under COP a triple/doubld/double combination will give more points. Mao wants to land a quad loop in 2010, good for her, she should keep on practicing, but that is high risk low reward, even men skaters are not doing quads like they used to. Besides, all the attention to jumps give the commentators and press the opportunity to call her a jumping bean which is a very unfair characterization of Mao, a complete skater overall. If she trains to repackage herself she will be able to win some easier points in the PCS department , just look at how Cohen is rewarded so much largely due to her flexibililty since she was 15. Was Cohen as mature as Angela Nicodinov when they were competing for an olympic spot in 2002? ( Mao definitely has huge flexibility potential).
 
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equestrianguy

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
In terms of Cohen's music interpretation, IMO, Sasha's way of presenting has always been about Cohen and not the music.

That statement is very interesting.. I have to agree, but you can also take out Sasha's name in that sentence and replace it with Irina's or Michelle's.. I think they are all great skaters don't get me wrong. Although, they are going to be remembered for their own special style/moves no matter what music they are skating too...
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
equestrianguy said:
In terms of Cohen's music interpretation, IMO, Sasha's way of presenting has always been about Cohen and not the music.

That statement is very interesting.. I have to agree, but you can also take out Sasha's name in that sentence and replace it with Irina's or Michelle's.. I think they are all great skaters don't get me wrong. Although, they are going to be remembered for their own special style/moves no matter what music they are skating too...

Well, when Michelle skates, I get the feeling that she truly is trying to put the music first, and Michelle second, e.g. Lyra Angelica by Alwyn, MK was trying to understand what the music is all about, her interpretation is not about Michelle, it is about Alwyn's harp concerto. Whether Mk is 100% on target in skating to the essence of Lyra Angelica is a different issue. It is more difficult for me to talk about Irina's interpretation, but to me, her presentation is not about Irina either. Irina's way of presenting IMO at times is competition first, music second, and Irina third.

And of course ITA, Mk and IS will be remember for their own style and moves no matter what music they are skating to.
 
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bdreampixie

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Reading this thread makes me wonder if I was watching some other competition.

Shizuka is the only lady that IMO was robbed. Her strength, flow, speed, power and control was the best of anyone there. Her PCS should have been the highest.

Mao's PCS were fine. She covers the ice really well, has good edges, flow. The best thing about her skating is the breezy quality that she has. An ease of movement that is very pleasing. She meets every single requirement for high PCS marks, so her score is fair.

Sasha. I just don't get the "wuz robbed". She was slow, landed only one or two jumps solidly, her power and edges aren't at the level of Joannie or Shiz. Her PCS were generous. Having nice line and carriage is only one part of the equation. The choreo is much improved from Campbells, but nothing special. I've seen Sasha live at Nats and have come away completely unimpressed. TV does Sasha a lot of favors. I read enough live reports from TEB and almost all felt the result were fair.

BTW, Sasha and Shiz's spirals are designed to be L4, but they're not holding some of those positions long enough. In order for a spiral to count it needs to be held 3 seconds, if it's held for less it doesn't count at all. Sasha didn't hold her Charlotte, and the first part of the COE long enough. Shiz's fan spiral was also not held long enough.
 

kyla2

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Sasha and Shizuka

Well. I have seen Sasha at Nationals live also and come away very impressed. This was one performance that Sasha was into the music and it showed, and it is telling that so many of us could see the difference this time. She connected to the music. She went for the triple-double-double combination and landed it. Her foot work was lovely. The split was awesome as usual. The spiral section gorgeous and there were nice additions to the choreography. Shizuka was wonderful also but in a different way. Her deep edges, soft landings on her jumps, nice spiral and great speed were stunning. She interpreted the music beautifully. She is a skater's skater. But Sasha's performance, even with the fall, was the mesemrizing one of the night. I re-played it over and over I was so impressed.
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
bdreampixie said:
Shizuka is the only lady that IMO was robbed. Her strength, flow, speed, power and control was the best of anyone there. Her PCS should have been the highest.

ITA, and especially relatively to Cohen, I think Arakawa wuz robbed.

Mao's PCS were fine. She covers the ice really well, has good edges, flow. The best thing about her skating is the breezy quality that she has. An ease of movement that is very pleasing. She meets every single requirement for high underPCS marks, so her score is fair.
I agree about her breezy quality. I imagine she will develop into an ethereal style. I think if she keeps on working on her basic skating skills she may approach Katia like speed, stroking efficiency, and speed soon. I disagree with Suzie that Mao's skating "lack maturity" and many people complain that Mao look juniorish, she is only 15, so she looks young, but her skating is not juniorish at all. I don't think maturity is a criteria set the the ISU rules committee either

. I've seen Sasha live at Nats and have come away completely unimpressed. TV does Sasha a lot of favors. I read enough live reports from TEB and almost all felt the result were fair.
According to people who were there Mao received the biggest ovation. Cohen's speed is the worst among the top skaters minus Cupcake, IMO Miki and Mao easily out speed her. I watched Cohen in live competition a few times, and her lack of speed is frustrating. In the footwork section, Cohen's feet are busy and quick, but all the quickness does not translate to speed (velocity across the ice). If you watch the footwork work of e.g. Maneochenko (spelling) Irina, or Yuka Sato ., all these ladies don't have busy quickness, but with one move of the blade they travel huge distance.
 
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