Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 104

Thread: Linda Fratianne Update

  1. #76
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,655
    Am I right or wrong about my memories? I remember Linda saying several times that she was devestated for years by her Olympic experience because she felt that she had let her country down by not winning the gold for the red, white and blue.

    That is a lot different from saying that the international judges were crooks. Did Fratianne herself actually make claims of this sort?

    Mathman

  2. #77
    Keeper of Michelle's Nose berthes ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    953
    "I did not see the '80 Olympics (I was out of the country that year)"

    ???????????

    It's the Olys, they're world wide.

    I live in Belgium and SLC was all over the TV, I was always flipping back and forth between French, German, Dutch and English TV depending on who was showing what when.

    Were you with the Peace Corp in a village with no electricity, never mind a TV?

  3. #78
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    31
    Joe, Denise was 4th overall in Lake Placid, but she was buried down in 12th in figures, which meant that she had to skate in an earlier group, which I suspect may have cost her some marks in the short program, in which she was 2nd with an excellent and unusual performance (for instance, IIRC her combination spin began with a back camel). I thought at the time that Denise should have won the short as well as the long. Denise hated figures, and she had never gotten a World medal and only had one European bronze prior to her 1981 World Championship year largely because of her consistently low figures scores. My guess is that Denise's figures probably were not very good compared to the excellent figues of, say, Anett, but since Denise wasn't coming in as one of the top-ranked skaters I have no idea if she ought to have been 12th, 6th, or 20th in figures.

    It is amusing that Hamilton never won an Olympic long or short program and only won the Olympics in 1984 thanks to figures, because Brian Orser, who won the short and long, was something like 7th in figures--too far back to pull up to gold. But I still see absolutely nothing to indicate that Hamilton himself said that 1980 was fixed, only that Carroll and Fratianne claimed that it was.

    Mathman, Fratianne has said repeatedly in many interviews both that she was devastated about losing the gold AND that the judges were crooks and she was robbed of the gold. Not exactly a gracious loser, especially to those of us who thought that she lost fairly. Linda and Frank Carroll have whined about her loss ever since Lake Placid (though most vocally and wildly after Carlo Fassi's death, when he could no longer defend himself, in my observation) and they have hurled all sorts of wild, sometimes demonstrably false accusations at a wide range of people in skating, blaming Linda's loss on just about everything imaginable except for her own skating (which is a matter of taste that I don't want to get into again, Joe, I respect your different opinion there!).

    Lois

  4. #79
    GOLDEN DREAMS RealtorGal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,434
    Originally posted by berthes ghost
    "I did not see the '80 Olympics (I was out of the country that year)"

    ???????????

    It's the Olys, they're world wide.

    I live in Belgium and SLC was all over the TV, I was always flipping back and forth between French, German, Dutch and English TV depending on who was showing what when.

    Were you with the Peace Corp in a village with no electricity, never mind a TV?
    I could do without the sarcasm. Actually, I was living in Israel and they were not broadcasting the winter Olympics. (This was in the pre-Chait & Sakhnovsky days.) In case you are not familiar with the Middle East, winters are, uh... brief.

  5. #80
    Keeper of Michelle's Nose berthes ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    953
    "I could do without the sarcasm."

    ???

    If you meant the Peace Corp comment, I was serious. It could have happened.

    " In case you are not familiar with the Middle East, winters are, uh... brief."

    Now that's sarcasm I could do without.

  6. #81
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Staring at the ocean and smiling.
    Posts
    16,822
    "I remember about a year before the Olympics, Carlo Fassi came to my mom and dad and said he wasn't sure Frank had the political connections to get me the gold - if they'd put me with him, he could almost assure you that their daughter would get that gold medal......My parents didn't even have to ask me about that, as I was completely loyal to Frank." She added, "Sometimes I wonder what would have happened back in 1980 if the USFSA had gotten behind me like the Canadian Association got behind their pair team. But back then, you just did your job and went home were glad you weren't third."
    This is Linda's quote from the original article as quoted by SkateFan4Life.

    What I wonder, and does anyone know? Did Fassi use this claim of sekret, (probably corrupt), political powers , guaranteed to win you the gold, to attract topnotch skaters to his program?

    If so, it is not surprising when looking back, people like Linda and Frank believed him and went the conspiracy theory road.

    Even if Carlo claimed it, does not mean he really did it, BTW.

    I'd be curious what others think. Like SkateFan4Life, I wish he had finished his biography. I would have read it.

    dpp

  7. #82
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Again, mentioning Fassi, I do recall Hamilton mentioning him in that commentary.

    What I would dedeuce from all this is:

    1. No body saw the figures being judged.
    2. Many people (and judges) saw the Short.
    3. Lots more saw the Long.

    But much of 2 and 3 above are based on subjectivity.

    It's really open to a conspiracy theory between the exchange for Anett and Robin and Fassi was behind it. Is it true? Who knows? I doubt we will ever know.

    Joe

  8. #83
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    31
    Joe, I agree with your 2nd and 3rd points, but there were a few people who saw the figures being judged, and one of them posted on the rec.sports.skating.ice.figure newsgroup that she saw the figures and thought the results were fair for Anett/Linda. Also, although Carroll/Fratianne have come up with many contradictory stories about 1980 over the years, one thing that C/F have said in at least one interview was blaming Linda's lost SOLELY on her placement in figures, claiming that figures were unfair, but not claiming that the short or long were judged incorrectly. I don't have the exact quote handy, but it's come up in the past, if you want to do a google search. Anyway, basically C/F accepted the short & long results but not figures (which are conveniently impossible for almost everyone to judge for themselves, unlike the short & long), from what one or both of them have said on the record in interviews.

    It's really open to a conspiracy theory between the exchange for Anett and Robin and Fassi was behind it. Is it true? Who knows? I doubt we will ever know.
    This is the horrible, insidious nature of Frank Carroll's lies--CARROLL'S ANETT/ROBIN CONSPIRACY THEORY IS PROVABLY *NOT* TRUE!!! Now, I don't want to rehash all of it here again, but here once again Carroll has people like you, who never saw the men's competition and only saw part of the ladies, believing his lies simply because he has said them in print.

    Now, as I have said before, some of C/F's claims can't be proved one way or the other, but some of them ARE clearly lies and CAN be shown to be such (such as "eastern bloc conspiracy" and "ladies/men conspiracy").

    On a side note, on Skatefans a poster who knew Carlo fairly well has said that Carlo wanted people to think that he could have influence, regardless of whether he really did--it was something of a marketing strategy. I don't know what he did or didn't do for most of his career, but there are some specific cases, like the two I mentioned above, where the facts show that Carlo couldn't have done what Carroll claimed.

    Lois

  9. #84
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    201
    Is it true that her mother overheard two international judges saying that they were going to put Fratianne in 2nd?

    If people suspected the judging to be fixed, how come Frank Carroll or the UFSA did not do anything about it?
    Last edited by bleuchick; 08-03-2003 at 10:40 AM.

  10. #85
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    This has to be the hotest thread this summer.

    Lois - Your sole reporter who watched the figures is not a convincing argument. You seem to be saying it takes 7 judges to make a decision and only l spectator to affirm their decision. Sorry I can/t buy that.

    I sincerely believe there is a conspiracy because nothing can actually be proven, as you say, one way or another. I don't find anything wrong with conspiracies. They exist in politics for sure and whenever there are more of one group of judges who always decide in unison. No way to prove any of this so the conspiracy lingers.

    I have nothing to lose in this instance because my feelings for Linda are not all that important to me. But I do feel for any skater who may be the subject of a conspiracy. In Worlds 2002, Irina won her gold finally with 6 slavic judges all voting in her favor. That's the way of life.

    Joe

  11. #86
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,655
    Originally posted by bleuchick
    Is it true that her mother overheard two international judges saying that they were going to put Fratianne in 2nd?

    If people suspected the judging to be fixed, how come Frank Carroll or the UFSA did not do anything about it?
    According to the article in Blades magazine, it was years later that Linda's sister told Linda this story of what her mother overheard (I think, after her mother had died). To me, it seems possible that the judges might have just been chatting, saying that it looked like Fratianne would come in second. To me, it is hard to build a conspiracy theory out of that.

    Frank Carroll, I think, did do everything he could, but there wasn't really anything he could do except cry foul. As for the USFSA, Linda changes them (in the same article) with not "getting behind her."

    In general, the USFSA is not one to rock the boat, as witness their animosity to the World Skating Federation.

    Mathman
    Last edited by Mathman; 08-03-2003 at 02:40 PM.

  12. #87
    SkateFan4Life
    Guest
    I remember reading an interview in which Linda Fratianne stated she kept her 1980 Olympic silver medal in a shopping bag stashed
    under her bed for many years and simply could not look at it. A young neighbor of hers in Sun Valley asked to see it, and she had to think for a minute before she remembered where she had "stored" the silver medal. She retrieved the medal and then said, "You know, the medal looked nice after all."

    I again watched my videotape of the 1980 Olympic ladies long program, and, frankly, neither Fratianne nor Poetszh skated stellar long programs. Both were pretty robotic, especially Poetszh, who really was rather clunky.

    I'm sure many of you watched the "Fire on Ice" television special that was aired a few years ago on American network television that spotlighted the American women who have won Olympic gold medals in figure skating. It also featured a number of other Americans who did not win gold but who were outstanding skaters. The skaters mentioned included in this broadcast were: Tenley Albright, Carol Heiss, Peggy Fleming, Janet Lynn, Dorothy Hamill, Elaine Zayak, Rosalyn Sumners, Katarina Witt, Debi Thomas, Kristi Yamaguchi, Tonya Harding, Nancy Kerrigan, Michelle Kwan, and Tara Lipinski.

    Noteably absent was the era from 1977-1980. Linda Fratianne and Annet Poetszch were excluded from this program. I wondered why this important period was omitted - perhaps the television producers felt they could not include the 1980 Olympics without beating the drum on the "conspiracy" theory. Albright,
    Heiss, Fleming, Yamaguchi, Kerrigan, and Kwan were interviewed for this program. Kwan certainly did not cry foul over her second-place finish at Nagano; rather, her attitude was that it had been an honor to represent the US at the Olympics, and she was proud to have won a medal. Perhaps the television producers had attempted to get an interview with Fratianne, and instead of receiving a gracious response to her silver medal win, she lambasted the system for "robbing" her of the gold medal.
    If that happened, perhaps the producers felt it was best to omit the 1980 Olympics. Just a thought......

  13. #88
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Skatefan4Life - I appeciate your last take on this matter except for the final sentence which, to me, creates another conspiracy:

    "Perhaps the television producers had attempted to get an interview with Fratianne, and instead of receiving a gracious response to her silver medal win, she lambasted the system for "robbing" her of the gold medal.
    If that happened, perhaps the producers felt it was best to omit the 1980 Olympics. Just a thought......"

    Your operative word is 'Perhaps' and invites another hypothetical nuance to this whole thing.

    Hopefully, one day, we will hear from Frank and Linda for the definitive words spoken on this topic. In the meantime, Anett won. for some it was ok, for other it was not. There are few competitions where everyone agrees with the results.

    Joe

  14. #89
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    201
    Thanks for all your response. I read the BOI and thought..oh no here goes another scandal like SLC.


    Btw, in the BOI magazine, doesn't Linda looks like Jamie Sale?

    Mathman - well, I guess the USFSA does have something in common with Skate Canada - don't rock the boat and everything will be fine.

    After reading that article on Linda Fratianne, I am trying not to feel sorry for her because she seems to have moved on and done well since that olympics (had a child, married though now divorced, still in touch with Frank and enjoys working with him) but I still feel sorry for her and all the skaters who go through the same problem. At the end of the day, all that is left is "what if" and many questions never to be answered by anyone.

    Pretty sad, imo.
    Last edited by bleuchick; 08-03-2003 at 07:49 PM.

  15. #90
    SkateFan4Life
    Guest
    I'll give one kudo to Linda Fratianne -- after her Olympic disappointment, she did not turn pro immediately but competed at the 1980 Worlds, where she won the bronze medal. It was a disappointing finish - third place - for the defending World champion, but at least she was there, and she tried to win the title. If I remember the competition correctly, neither Fratianne, Poetszh, nor Lurz skated their best, and Jim McKay said something like, "The only thing I can say is that I'm glad I'm not a judge for this competition."

    On the other hand, Roz Sumners skipped the 1984 Worlds after her Olympic disappointment. She might have been able to defeat Katarina Witt and defend her World title, but she took the easy way out and skipped the competition. This isn't mean to "bash" Roz - it's just my opinion.

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Linda Fratianne, a "Sterling Figure"
    By SkateFan4Life in forum 2004-05 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 08-14-2005, 04:03 PM
  2. Small Linda Fratianne update
    By STL_Blues_fan in forum 2004-05 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-13-2005, 08:19 PM
  3. Quick Linda Fratianne Bio
    By SkateFan4Life in forum 2003-04 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-01-2003, 05:28 PM
  4. Linda Fratianne visits World Figure Skating Museum
    By SkateFan4Life in forum 2002-03 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-29-2003, 02:22 PM
  5. Linda Fratianne Link
    By SkateFan4Life in forum 2002-03 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 06-09-2003, 06:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •