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- Jul 11, 2003
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THE REAL Free Dance from TV
- Thread starter Joesitz (RIP)
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2004
Fab Coverage in Ice Dancing at this event!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again, they show that controversy segement
G-R/M definitely doesn't have a shot at the Olympics if B/A and M/Z get their citizenship in time. Their programs however have gooten significantly better
Here is where things go south
They showed G/P whom I thought were Fantastic as usual then Terry said that N/K were up next. After the commerical break they actually were showing Doms/Shab withe N/K overall total showing at the beginning. I was like WTF
Doms/Shab have gotten better but I think Ice dancing for the next quadrennium is going to be dominated by NA
Then Terry said that C/S were the final team up I was all like shouting "Cheese and Rice"
Thankfully they showed N/K and then C/S right after but some messed up coverage
I think I am going to write to eskate about the extended lifts issue though like whats the deal
Again, they show that controversy segement
G-R/M definitely doesn't have a shot at the Olympics if B/A and M/Z get their citizenship in time. Their programs however have gooten significantly better
Here is where things go south
They showed G/P whom I thought were Fantastic as usual then Terry said that N/K were up next. After the commerical break they actually were showing Doms/Shab withe N/K overall total showing at the beginning. I was like WTF
Doms/Shab have gotten better but I think Ice dancing for the next quadrennium is going to be dominated by NA
Then Terry said that C/S were the final team up I was all like shouting "Cheese and Rice"
Thankfully they showed N/K and then C/S right after but some messed up coverage
I think I am going to write to eskate about the extended lifts issue though like whats the deal
G/P Definitely their best program I've seen up until now but I can't help myself but think about A/P's Romeo & Juliet -even costumes are similar, and the beginning of teh program is very similar. But to their credit, they seem so improved from last season.
N/K Very polished and seemed much more comfortable with the program since last time. I never had any doubt Navka would make a great Carmen.
C/S How could I like Bolero, especially in ice dance, that's not done by Torville and Dean? But this program works for C/S: it shows their flow and edginess, and the music makes them to hold and finish each movement. I can't believe I like this program.
N/K Very polished and seemed much more comfortable with the program since last time. I never had any doubt Navka would make a great Carmen.
C/S How could I like Bolero, especially in ice dance, that's not done by Torville and Dean? But this program works for C/S: it shows their flow and edginess, and the music makes them to hold and finish each movement. I can't believe I like this program.
When I saw G/P and heard the sounds of the PROKOFIEV "Romeo & Juliet" score, I thought, "So THAT'S what Morozov did with it!" With his insistence that Cohen use Rota's "R&J" I kept thinking, "WTF? A Russian insisting that his skater use that dreck?" But now the mystery is solved.
Who used the Edvin Marton "Variations on R & J"? Maybe it was a male singles skater or pairs team. Whoever it was got a good one, considering it used the Rota version as it's basis.
Not entirely off-topic since we have at least three "Romeo and Juliet" programs, each using a different score.
If I were Sasha, I'd sue Morozov.
Rgirl
Who used the Edvin Marton "Variations on R & J"? Maybe it was a male singles skater or pairs team. Whoever it was got a good one, considering it used the Rota version as it's basis.
Not entirely off-topic since we have at least three "Romeo and Juliet" programs, each using a different score.
If I were Sasha, I'd sue Morozov.
Rgirl
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
G and P looking very good and they are a good team but they are not in that dance click and will they be accepted in time. the Prokovief cuts are perfect.
C&S are so good this year. Imo, she is a weak skater but he is quite able to cover that up.
N&K - textbook CoP dancing. Little emotion. JMO.
Joe
C&S are so good this year. Imo, she is a weak skater but he is quite able to cover that up.
N&K - textbook CoP dancing. Little emotion. JMO.
Joe
Rgirl said:
I think it is T/M who are using this version...I like it too.
I loved the dance coverage...I saw more dance then i normally do. If they start showing the other two dance segments, I just might become a really huge dance uber fan! But, to my untrained eye, N/K just seemed soooo much better than everyone; as Susie said, their leg line had such perfect unison it was just WOW (for me).
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I agree with Susie. They are excellent technicians, but do not offer me much more than technique. I like to see couples (either in Dance or in Pairs) have a rapport with each other. That's what it's all about otherwise why have two people skating together. It seems to me that N&K and some other teams concentrate too much on CoP reqjuirements. Unfortunately, there is nothing specific in the PCS scores requiring rapport.emma said:
The concept that two must skate as one is carried to excess.
Joe
Joesitz said:
I don't follow enough dance to really comment, other than to say I totally get what you are saying. When pair skaters seem cool towards one another and/or lack rapport, I just feel something is missing even when they are exceptional skaters/technicians. I have felt that way, for example, with T/M....and also agree with Susie (again) that the Polish team is so endearing in part because of their rapport (and kick butt lifts too)...but that's another thread. I'm just saying that even without watching much dance, I can tell what you mean by N/K's lack of rapport or emotion towards one another.
Well, I saw CoR live and here're my 2 cents:
G-R/M: He's good, she's not. Hideous costumes and just OK program.
C/S: Well, I liked it a lot. Despite being very prejudiced against Bolero. Thanks to them for proving me wrong
N/K: Actually it was not perfect :no: But still very impressive. And I respectfully disagree, they ARE emotional. And thanks to them for not bringing reminiscences of Krylova/Ovsyannikov's version.
DomShabs: My absolutely favourite FD.
Overall:
- the last warm-up was FAB.
- blade-to-head "Biellmann" positions in spins are ugly (IMHO worse than upside down splits)
- I don't get the entire idea of deductions for "extended lifts". Can anyone explain its point?
Details/comments on other teams by request
G-R/M: He's good, she's not. Hideous costumes and just OK program.
C/S: Well, I liked it a lot. Despite being very prejudiced against Bolero. Thanks to them for proving me wrong
N/K: Actually it was not perfect :no: But still very impressive. And I respectfully disagree, they ARE emotional. And thanks to them for not bringing reminiscences of Krylova/Ovsyannikov's version.
DomShabs: My absolutely favourite FD.
Overall:
- the last warm-up was FAB.
- blade-to-head "Biellmann" positions in spins are ugly (IMHO worse than upside down splits)
- I don't get the entire idea of deductions for "extended lifts". Can anyone explain its point?
Details/comments on other teams by request
Too many blade-to-head catchfoot Biellman lifts, but I remember the horror of last season's upside down crotch lifts. I'd rather choose Biellman position than upside down split position if it comes down to those two. I'm still overjoyed that the ISU banned upside down split position. Now only if they limit the use of Biellman position -it's painful seeing not-so-well stretched Biellmans.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
Shanti said:Well, I saw CoR live and here're my 2 cents:
Overall:
-
- blade-to-head "Biellmann" positions in spins are ugly (IMHO worse than upside down splits)
- I don't get the entire idea of deductions for "extended lifts". Can anyone explain its point?
Details/comments on other teams by request
I would rather see the Biellmans than the upside down splits, particularly those close to the face.
The only thing I can think of regarding extended lifts is that if a couple takes a long time just to get into a lift, then holds it for a 'normal' length of time, it means they had trouble executing (but then they should not call it an extended lift, right?). Or, it could be an effort to cram more moves into the program. I am only guessing. It still sounds strange that a lift cannot be more than 6 seconds long. A lift held for a long time with perfect positions and lines actually looks good to my untrained eye.
Thanks for your eye witness account.
Vash
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Except for the very beginning and the very end, where the choregraphy looked like it was made for Albena Denkova, I enjoyed this program more than any other at CoR, and I liked C/S' very much. I just love watching Domnina skate.Shanti said:
hockeyfan228, I agree with you on the ending of DomShabs program - that sharp (?) moves - though I didn't have an impression it was made for Denkova (thought it's not impossible at all since DomShabs and DenSta shared the choreographer (Sergej Petukhov) until this season). Still the ending didn't fit the program too well.
And actually it was very funny to look at their faces - they skated almost the whole program with closed eyes!
All these exteded lift deductions seem so bizarre to me. IIRC all top 3 teams had them in their FD (maybe C/S had even 2). And actually all teams had GREAT lifts. None looked awkward or clumsy, entrances to lifts and exits from them were also quite good (all teams had L4 lifts with positive GOE).
As to upside down splits vs blade-to-head: I preferred splits for the only reason they were really splits, and from what I've seen this season, most Biellmanns look terrible with all those bent knees. Ouch!
And actually it was very funny to look at their faces - they skated almost the whole program with closed eyes!
All these exteded lift deductions seem so bizarre to me. IIRC all top 3 teams had them in their FD (maybe C/S had even 2). And actually all teams had GREAT lifts. None looked awkward or clumsy, entrances to lifts and exits from them were also quite good (all teams had L4 lifts with positive GOE).
As to upside down splits vs blade-to-head: I preferred splits for the only reason they were really splits, and from what I've seen this season, most Biellmanns look terrible with all those bent knees. Ouch!
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- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
I actually think this year is a great improvement for N&K in this regard. Their previous seasons dances were basically "a queen and a hooligan"; this year they've sort of evened things out. Though I am very disappointed that the Olympic Gold favorites are not even trying to come up with something interesting from their free dance; I feel that all the previous ones made the attempt. The only Olympic dance gold (IMHO) which did not go to an "attempted interesting" program was G&P's 1994 gold, but they weren't the favorites for that one.Joesitz said:
As to PCS - there are several items related to rapport:
Under Skating Skills: Equal mastery of technique by both partners shown in unison.
Under Transitions: Balance of workload between partners.
Under Performance/Execution: Unison and “oneness”.
Under Choreography/Composition: Shared responsibility in achieving purpose.
Under Interpretation: Relationship between the partners reflecting the character of the music.
ITA!Vash01 said:
I don't think hockeyfan was suggesting it was acutally made for Albena, rather that it's a style more appropriate for her than for Oksana. I think this is a wider overall problem, as I don't feel that Dom & Shab have yet found their own voice; they appear more to mimic others.Shanti said:
Well, there are Italian Faiella & Scali, Zazoui's "next generation" team of Pechalat & Bourzat, Israeli Zaretskies, etc. So I wouldn't call it the NA quadrennium juste yet!SailorGalaxia518 said:
I think she's gotten much better over the years. In a way, he is the one who now annoys me, since he doesn't even try to improve, probably because he thinks he's already better than she is anyway.Joesitz said:
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Ptichka - Regarding the rules you listed on rapport. The first 4 lines seem to be related more, imo, to the technical aspects of the program. Sorry about my ignorance, but it does mention the need for a relationship between a couple in the fifth line.
I glad to see it in the rules. I wish more Dance and Pairs couples would notice of that.
My basic problem with N&K is that they are so much like T&M in style. Incredible technique but I just don't get with what appears to me as aloofness towards each other except in posing. Neither of those two teams are like B&S. There was a truly love affair on the ice with B&S.
I don't know the background of C&S that much. My comments were just from observing them for the past few years.
Joe
I glad to see it in the rules. I wish more Dance and Pairs couples would notice of that.
My basic problem with N&K is that they are so much like T&M in style. Incredible technique but I just don't get with what appears to me as aloofness towards each other except in posing. Neither of those two teams are like B&S. There was a truly love affair on the ice with B&S.
I don't know the background of C&S that much. My comments were just from observing them for the past few years.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Where do you think he needs to improve? He's a superb, strong partner with fantastic edges and the ability to maintain speed during long one-footed skating sequences. He turns exceptionally well, skates with flair, and interprets music superbly.Ptichka said:
One of the digs against this partnership has been that he has outclassed her. If he got even better, there would be even more disparity. I don't think she can catch up, because I think she moves stiffly, even if her edges have gotten deeper over the years. And it's not a matter of flexibility, because she's as capable as anyone of turning into a pretzel in lifts. She works hard, but often she doesn't have a dance quality. One of the reasons I like "Bolero" so much this season is that she looks like she's actually enjoying the act of moving, not working.
Edited to add: What he could do to improve, IMO, is to stop demanding applause from the audience, which he does during the bows.
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Can someone explain why N/A's scores are so much higher than C/S's? I don't know much about ice dancing so I don't really know what the judges are looking at, but they didn't seem THAT much better than everyone else.
Roman didn't look that happy either in the kiss and cry. Even the announcer commented that Roman didn't look very happy considering their scores.
Personally I enjoyed both of C/S's dances a lot more than N/A's.
Roman didn't look that happy either in the kiss and cry. Even the announcer commented that Roman didn't look very happy considering their scores.
Personally I enjoyed both of C/S's dances a lot more than N/A's.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Thanks perry - that has been my question for so many years of watching dance.There is no rhyme or reason in judging dance, imo. All I can gather is that if a couple falls, the couple will be penalized severely. Who's got the best variation on shoot the duck is moot. In fact breaking down the dance elements, and scoring them, imo, is whimsical. the commentator on the TV. Is it Susie or Tracy just loves all the tricks as being difficult and much improved dancing from last time she saw them. Closeness is difficult to really see on TV, but I would consider that a factor in judging. Edging definitely. classic ballroom positions, definitely. character of the music, very important (note: few couples know dances based on Afro rhythyms), etc., etc.perry125 said:
I could go on but, for me it is futile, I just don't understand how it is judged and I do not buy PASSION.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
perry125 said:
I am at a loss here. Who are N/A? Is this a typo and did you mean N/K?
Ice dance is the hardest to judge on TV because you don't see the speed, the flow. The costumes look garish or plain ridiculous on TV. The live performances are really quite enjoyable. I have not compared these two dance teams in live performances, but I suspect what separates N/K from C/S is speed, lines, and execution.
Vash
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