Is Sasha Cohen Too Thin?

[Rgirl]

Great post, Doggygirl. Anybody want to talk BMI? How was your percent body fat tested? Underwater? Electromagnetically? Skinfold? After 25 years of counseling dancers, skaters, and other "movers who must maintain an exceptionally low body weight" and having a book published on same, you learn a few things you thought you knew, only to find out that the only way you can really learn anything--and then you still just learn how much more you have to learn--is to face these dying girls and women, and I do mean dying, every damn day for 25 years.

To the "THIS is thin!" "No, THIS is thin!" posters: It's not how thin they are. It's how thin their GENETICS intend them to be.

Khorkina has been that weight since I first saw her, at least eight years ago. Never up, never down. Her genes and her conditioning are determinging that.

Sasha looks to me about 10 lb. lighter now than she did at the '02 Olympics. Check your tapes.

Request, the topic is Sasha. If you want to have a "This is thin!" contest, If I could, I'd put up my photos of "Ballerinas from Auschwitz," which I realize is a very offensive name. But if you took the photos of these girls and tried, with their doctors, to save their lives--failing more often than not--ballet dancers who had been the best in the world just 2 or 3 years earlier, who were simply skeletons and organs with skin stretched over them, girls who believed down to their souls that they were TOO FAT, you'd understand why I use an offensive name.

Speaking of skeletal girls thinking they're too fat, one of the theories of anorexia--which NONE of us is saying we think anybody has who hasn't announced it--is that it's a form of body dysmorphic disorder. In BDD, normal, attractive, even beautiful people truly see themselves as hideously ugly. I nice cute nose to them looks like a football. With anorexics, the hypothesis is that they really cannot see how thin they are, that they look in the mirror and really see 300 LB. women.

Just something to think about. I've gotta eat.

Rgirl

[Doggygirl]

Great post, Doggygirl. Anybody want to talk BMI? How was your percent body fat tested? Underwater? Electromagnetically? Skinfold? After 25 years of counseling dancers, skaters, and other "movers who must maintain an exceptionally low body weight" and having a book published on same, you learn a few things you thought you knew, only to find out that the only way you can really learn anything--and then you still just learn how much more you have to learn--is to face these dying girls and women, and I do mean dying, every damn day for 25 years.

To the "THIS is thin!" "No, THIS is thin!" posters: It's not how thin they are. It's how thin their GENETICS intend them to be.

Khorkina has been that weight since I first saw her, at least eight years ago. Never up, never down. Her genes and her conditioning are determinging that.

Sasha looks to me about 10 lb. lighter now than she did at the '02 Olympics. Check your tapes.

Request, the topic is Sasha. If you want to have a "This is thin!" contest, If I could, I'd put up my photos of "Ballerinas from Auschwitz," which I realize is a very offensive name. But if you took the photos of these girls and tried, with their doctors, to save their lives--failing more often than not--ballet dancers who had been the best in the world just 2 or 3 years earlier, who were simply skeletons and organs with skin stretched over them, girls who believed down to their souls that they were TOO FAT, you'd understand why I use an offensive name.

Speaking of skeletal girls thinking they're too fat, one of the theories of anorexia--which NONE of us is saying we think anybody has who hasn't announced it--is that it's a form of body dysmorphic disorder. In BDD, normal, attractive, even beautiful people truly see themselves as hideously ugly. I nice cute nose to them looks like a football. With anorexics, the hypothesis is that they really cannot see how thin they are, that they look in the mirror and really see 300 LB. women.

Just something to think about. I've gotta eat.

Rgirl

As a former anorexic, continuing to deal with weight and image issues 30+ years later, I do take this topic very seriously. But I don't think it's fair for a bunch of fans on a discussion board to assume anything, one way or the other, about individuals (FS athletes in this case) that none of us have personal contact with, or that level of knowledge about. A photograph on the internet, or an opinion based on coverage of a program performed on ice says nothing, and I mean NOTHING about this topic that any of us could possibly take "personal" with any athletes where this might be a concern.

Based on my personal experience, I do have my own concerns about things I see and things I hear/read in interviews, etc. But I don't know these people individually, and while I have a lot to say on this topic from my own perspective, will not put my thoughts on other people.

For those of you who have been around since last season, you might tell me I went to far on this subject with a Pair's skater. I realize (how do I double capitalize the "I") that while I stand by my opinion, I was equally out of line because I do NOT know this person, and cannot possibly comment on their thoughts or personal habits.

DG

[R.D.]

Khorkina has been that weight since I first saw her, at least eight years ago. Never up, never down. Her genes and her conditioning are determinging that.

Check out this (old) photo someone over at sashafans posted of Khorkina. Looks like she had a fuller figure here:

http://svetlana.no.sapo.pt/khorkina1-2.jpg

So something happened (I think).

BTW, the posters on the "Sasha is thin" side are just going to have to learn to disagree with me Hardly anything is going to change my mind unless I hear it from her or her family (and who's one to think THAT's gonna happen?).

ETA: DG- you've got it nailed down. I can't see how anyone can possibly speculate that Cohen is thin without even seeing her. By that I mean in person. Remember, cameras tend to do weird things to people's bodies

[LBC]

As a former anorexic, continuing to deal with weight and image issues 30+ years later, I do take this topic very seriously. But I don't think it's fair for a bunch of fans on a discussion board to assume anything, one way or the other, about individuals (FS athletes in this case) that none of us have personal contact with, or that level of knowledge about. A photograph on the internet, or an opinion based on coverage of a program performed on ice says nothing, and I mean NOTHING about this topic that any of us could possibly take "personal" with any athletes where this might be a concern.

Based on my personal experience, I do have my own concerns about things I see and things I hear/read in interviews, etc. But I don't know these people individually, and while I have a lot to say on this topic from my own perspective, will not put my thoughts on other people.

For those of you who have been around since last season, you might tell me I went to far on this subject with a Pair's skater. I realize (how do I double capitalize the "I") that while I stand by my opinion, I was equally out of line because I do NOT know this person, and cannot possibly comment on their thoughts or personal habits.

DG

Good post DG. We do NOT know these people personally. Pictures can be deceiving. We don't know the full stories behind things. ;

[Mathman]

How do I double capitalize the "I" ?

I

This is Tahoma font (click on "fonts" in the dialogue box.)

[Rgirl]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com...lt-384x291.jpg

There are gymnasts and other such athletes all over the world who are dangerously thin. But the thread is about Sasha. Everybody has different body proportions, so putting a photo of long-legged gymnast with those legs in a position to look their thinnest means nohting relative to Sasha. Sorry, RD.

Actually, maybe they don't mean nothing. Sasha has a long torso and relative short legs. if this gymnast had Sasha's proportions, she'd look just like Sasha.

Also, this girl may be fine. Her genetics may have her programmed to be very thin, plus I think she's Romanian and they push even their naturally ultra-thin girls to lose weight.

Remember, it's not how thin you are. It's how thin you genes want you to be and still be healthy.

Remember '96 Worlds when Midori Ito made her "comeback." Wish I had a nickel for every time I heard someone say, "She's lost weight. Oh, she looks great!"

No, she looked anorexic to me, There are ways you can tell, places on the body you can look for certain bone protusions--such as being able to see the ribs through the back, as just one example. Of course a true exam is done in a physicians office. But after a while, you also notice subjective things, such as a "dead look" in the eyes, no joy in their movement. It's all "just let me get through this."

BTW, Doggygirl, I highly doubt that Sasha has experts to consult. Most skaters don't want them. If skaters, and I'm not talking Sasha, has a predilection to anorexia or bulimia (as I break my own rule from p1), the last person they want around is an expert in eating disorders. They WANT this disease. The most dangerous thing about the disease is that the body drives itself to have it, either neurochemically, neurohormonally, psychologically, or, my hypothesis, a combination of the three.

Anorexic girls don't want to get well and they'll do anything to stay sick: Keep coffe cans under their beds so they can eat in front of their parents, who also keep a close eye on the bathroom, and make themselves vomit what they ate into the can. If they have a dog, they feed their vomit to the dog.

Wanna hear worse stories?

So if you're willing to puke into a coffe can under your bed and feed your puke to your dog, do you think such a person is going to let anybody hire a specialist in eating disorders for her? Anorexia and bulimia is a lot about hiding--hide the food you didn't eat, hide the laxatives you're taking by the handful, hide in the closet to die like Karen Carpenter.

I know, a lot of people are thiinking, "Give it a rest, Rgirl. Sasha looks fine." Every girl I worked with who died within 5-10 years of the best treatment in the world--and I don't mean me, I just got them to the specialists and talked to them--looked "just fine" said their own mothers. "Wish I had anorexia," said their fellow dancers. "You look great!" They all "looked fine" if you didn't know what to look for, which I discussed a little above.

Honestly, I'm having trouble not saying what I know I should be saying but can't for various reasons, legal issues being one. So I'll stop for now.

Rgirl

[skatingfan5]

Rgirl: I certainly hope that your concerns about Sasha turn out to be groundless, however, I myself have seen some photos from this season (the past several months), where she definitely seemed to be more than a bit thinner than in the past, especially her upper body. Her appearance in this photo from TEB is very similar to one I saw from Campbell's that had me wondering.
http://www.pixieworld.net/viewphtgr....os=0&pht=13053
BTW, I think she looked much more muscular and toned in the COI photos -- and when I saw her in COI she didn't seem to be so thin. Of course, that was more than 8 months ago now.

[Mathman]

Rgirl, has anorexa only recently come under scrutiny by medical research, or does it have a long history in the literature?

MM

[R.D.]

RG- you said that you think Khorkina might be "fine" because of the way her body is built. But this girl really is scary-thin. I have another picture of her from a side view and one can easily tell there's something going on.

http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/51...1CF461BB6606AD

http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/51...1CF461BB6606AD

Now, say what you will, but I'm not so sure it's healthy for ANYONE to be that thin... Plus, in that other picture she looked like she was more filled out.

Now, by the same logic, to deduce that Cohen has an eating problem, one must know how she is SUPPOSED to look at that height/build. You said that if that gymnast were shorter, she'd look "just like Sasha". Well, then what makes Sasha's case so unique? In that case, Cohen is just fine.

So, my question to the posters who think Cohen is thin is: well, what is she SUPPOSED to look like? Show me a picture of her when she was "normal size" and then show me a picture of her now. Besides, I'd wait a while to see if she gets any thinner before even possibly thinking about questioning her condition. But that's just me. If people want to continue to speculate about this topic, they can.

[millie]

NEWS BULLETIN: Selfproclaimed DR. MILLIE says that Sasha is fine, no need to worry your little heads, just checked her out. She's fit as a fiddle. All you other Doctors misdiagonised her. She got a second opinion from me.

[R.D.]

NEWS BULLETIN: Selfproclaimed DR. MILLIE says that Sasha is fine, no need to worry your little heads, just checked her out. She's fit as a fiddle. All you other Doctors misdiagonised her. She got a second opinion from me.

Dr. Red Dog concurs.

[LBC]

I've been looking for pictures in similar outfits to make comparisons.

2005 TEB
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com...2686820056.jpg

Sasha 2002 Nats practice
http://heatherw.com/mk/pics/events/nat02/sasha_prac.jpg

2002 olympics
http://www.sashafans.com/media/galle...short-ap-4.jpg
2002 Skate Canada
http://www.sashafans.com/media/galle.../long/ap-4.jpg
2003 Campbell's
http://www.sashafans.com/media/galle...pbell/ac06.jpg

2003 Nats
http://www.sashafans.com/media/galle...ong/adeff2.jpg

[R.D.]

I've been looking for pictures in similar outfits to make comparisons.

2005 TEB
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com...2686820056.jpg

Sasha 2002 Nats practice
http://heatherw.com/mk/pics/events/nat02/sasha_prac.jpg

I don't know if it's my eyes or what, but I honestly CAN'T see a difference. (It's probably not the best comparsion though. Maybe pictures of her in the same position from different years would be better for comparison purposes).

[kyla2]

Ballerinas, figure skaters, and gymnasts may have problems with anorexia and or bullemia. It's a fact. But Sasha is simply small to begin with and fine boned. She looks o.k. to me and she is toned. Look at her arms. Pang is another story. She looks seriously underweight.

[R.D.]

I've been looking for pictures in similar outfits to make comparisons.

2005 TEB
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com...2686820056.jpg

Sasha 2002 Nats practice
http://heatherw.com/mk/pics/events/nat02/sasha_prac.jpg

2002 olympics
http://www.sashafans.com/media/galle...short-ap-4.jpg
2002 Skate Canada
http://www.sashafans.com/media/galle.../long/ap-4.jpg
2003 Campbell's
http://www.sashafans.com/media/galle...pbell/ac06.jpg

2003 Nats
http://www.sashafans.com/media/galle...ong/adeff2.jpg

After looking at those extra pictures, I'm now thoroughly convinced that Cohen is fine. She has not changed (or changed very little) over the years. That's just the way her body is built. Seriously, if she followed you guys' advice and started gaining weight, that would be even worse. Even the slightest gain of weight on a body like hers is clearly noticeable. (And I'm sure there would be posters crying out, is she overweight? She needs to watch what she eats. Neverending, isn't it? But then again, it's Sasha we're talking about, so perhaps I shouldn't be totally shocked.)