Michelle

nymkfan51 said:

I was kind of expecting this doom and gloom ... I almost didn't come here to read the thread, but decided to chance it.
Folks ... did anyone really believe she was going to come out in good shape here? She was off the ice completely for a fairly long time, and only just 2 weeks ago started training jumps and spins again. I find it amazing that she landed anything really. She has a lot of work to do, that's clear. She has a month before Nats, and I feel probably will not peak there as she normally does. But to say she should just quit now, without trying ... well, I'm thankful Michelle is more of a fighter than some of her fans.

And as for the Olympics ... no, she will not win. Either will Sasha or Shizuka or Carolina or Miki. That medal has already been decided. So MK doesn't have to stress about that.

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nymkfan

I almost did not visit because of this also. I certainly did not expect a thread with some of the doom and gloom that has been posted. Michelle went out and tried a new program in front of an audience for the first time this season. She did what she could considering the injury she has. With more practice she will make the top three at nationals. So what if she does not win, she has 9 titles. Its all about skating well and making the olympic team.

I agree nym.........it was such a treat to see her skate and wasn't her gorgeous split falling leaf worth it? With a month to go, anything can (and usually does happen).....she might surprise us all................42

.......and, by the way, Oliie, keep posting here.........you didn't do or say anything, in my opinion, that was offensive..........42

Im assuming that the first program MK did was her SP for this year? I really like the music and I think it will be something new for her to improve on. Although, she did not look very strong at all. I hope that she can improve quite a bit in a month.. I want to see the legendary Kwan we are used too one more time before she retires..

I completely dug her footwork in her new sp! I think Michelle is going to be okay, people just expected to see her completely healed and renewed or whatever, but she knows what she has to do to get better. I'm not giving up on her, she's a fighter! And right when people think she's done with and they say so and so has the win, Michelle comes out swinging..

This is a new article on the event with some good quotes from Michelle. Funny, the article doesn't seem near the doom and gloom I am reading on the net.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/20051211-1343-fig-skatingchallenge.html

"I did what I could today," Kwan said. "Just being out there, it gives me a sense of rhythm. I started jumping not too long ago, like two weeks ago. From not spinning, not jumping to performing, that was a big step for me."

Also, I haven't seen this yet, but why is everyone so excited that Sasha landed two triple jumps in her program? Is it that hard for her to skate clean that this feat, when accomplished, is cause for gushing?

Thanks Lucy.

Look, I'm not going to say that Michelle is doing splendidly and will run over the competition at Nationals.Clearly, she could lose Nats this year to Sasha ... but I wouldn't consider that horrible or reason for her to not go. She's had an injury that has put her at a distinct disadvantage this year, but as she said ... this is it ... this is what I have to work with. She will do the best she can, and I will love and respect her for it.
She can make a lot of progress in a month. This was her first time out after just 2 weeks of real training ... and she was very close on the jumps.
My wish is for her to skate the best she can and make the Olympic team, which would then give her another month of training. Then ... a medal in Torino would be a dream come true!

Thanks for the link Lucy25, and no Michelle doesn't sound all doom and gloom. Homegirl knows what she's gotta do!!!

nymkfan51 said:

Thanks Lucy.

Look, I'm not going to say that Michelle is doing splendidly and will run over the competition at Nationals.Clearly, she could lose Nats this year to Sasha ... but I wouldn't consider that horrible or reason for her to not go. She's had an injury that has put her at a distinct disadvantage this year, but as she said ... this is it ... this is what I have to work with. She will do the best she can, and I will love and respect her for it.
She can make a lot of progress in a month. This was her first time out after just 2 weeks of real training ... and she was very close on the jumps.
My wish is for her to skate the best she can and make the Olympic team, which would then give her another month of training. Then ... a medal in Torino would be a dream come true!

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I am actually expecting Michelle not to win Nationals. The woman is not Superwoman. I am hoping for an improved performance and a top three finish, so she can have a bit more time to train. I really hope she goes to 4CC's, too.

Thanks for posting that Lucy. Michelle knows she has work to do getting ready for nationals, but she did the best she could at this point. For not jumping and spinning until recently, I for one don't think she did bad. She will take this competition, comments for Dick, Peggy and Peter and get stronger as she continues to train for nationals.

a different breed

Just an observation: Elite athletes, esp. competitive elite athletes, are a breed apart. Consider that most of them have been training at an incredible level since childhood, 6 or 7 days a week. How long does it take to "deconstruct" all that fitness and training....a month, two months, three....? Sometimes it's actually GOOD for them to take an entire month off...they come back with the same ability, only a few weeks away from regaining aerobic endurance, which, once regained, fuels their rested muscles, ligaments, tendons...Muscles actually respond the quickest, regaining strength surprisingly fast with routine work. Good Lord, Sasha, even Irina, to name two, have come back in the past from significant injuries and illnesses. Give Michelle space please.

I'm saying that perhaps Michelle's injury has taken much out of her, but an elite athlete can overcome the physical very quickly once settled into the training routine again. It's regaining the will, the belief that you can do it that is hardest to do.

Let's face it. Kwan was not up to par let alone any expectation of something special after 2 months of non practice. Sad, but that's the way it is in skateland.

on the plus side there were MIF expecially in the SP and her camel spins are quite beautiful and fast.

Peter Carruthers is a first class %@#*!!! Kwan could skate at her best and he would put her down every time. I believe there is something strange in his relationship with the Kwans . I don't think they get along.

My only question now is whether she will skate the Nats. She's not going to go for the sympathy skate. Not her style. So we don't really know how much she is hurting.

Joe

After watching MK out there, it's clear that she's fighting to get back in shape. But if there's one person I refuse to count out at any time, it's her. You just never know. She comes across as confident in her interviews.

I think all this premature crowning of Sasha as National Champion is just asking for it. I really do. It certainly can't be doing her much good. But I WILL say that she doesn't have a better chance at a Nats title than in 2006. It's just up to her to take advantage of it.

I refuse to crown anyone Nats champion yet. I thought this was MK's in the bag, but this is really making me think. The "judges" unanimously picked Sasha over her TWICE (I know this doesn't mean anything in the true sense, but still...). I think that Nats title could truly be a toss up this time around. Time to get ready for a REAL showdown this time in St. Louis!

Sasha has Flexibilty, Michelle has artistry

Yes Sasha is more flexible than Michelle, but I still don't see the great artistry from her that people gush about. I just don't. Michelle is still the only one who draws me into her performance whether up to par or not. The only time I saw a little from Sasha was at Nationals last year 2004 at the beginning of her program. If Michelle has not recovered much more in the next month, I hope she looks at things realisticly before making any future decisions. When she has left the building, I won't be watching much. I don't think the new wave is enjoyable to watch. The Biellman is one of the, if not the, ugliest move in ice skating. Yet, it gets extemely high marks in the new scope of things. There has to be a nicer way to judge flexibility.

kyla2 said:

Well, as I posted on another thread, I wanted to see Michelle and I did. I think she is still really injured and unable to compete at this level, or any other for that matter. If I was giving her advice I would tell her to forget this year and withdraw from further competition. She doesn't have a snowball's chance in h___L of winning Nationals or the Olympics in this condition. It was painful to watch and I don't want to see her go out like this. IMO, I don't think she will make 2nd or 3rd place at Nationals, never mind 1st. Her SP was not great either, even with the required jumps.

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She's going to win Nationals. From what I saw, she might have had a pop on the flip, but she still looks much more secure than Sasha. And there were lots of comments on how "slow" Michelle appeared. Granted I downloaded the video off the computer but Michelle covered way more ice than Sasha.

That SP pales in comparison to Irina's though.

pipsqueak said:

Just an observation: Elite athletes, esp. competitive elite athletes, are a breed apart. Consider that most of them have been training at an incredible level since childhood, 6 or 7 days a week. How long does it take to "deconstruct" all that fitness and training....a month, two months, three....? Sometimes it's actually GOOD for them to take an entire month off...they come back with the same ability, only a few weeks away from regaining aerobic endurance, which, once regained, fuels their rested muscles, ligaments, tendons...Muscles actually respond the quickest, regaining strength surprisingly fast with routine work. Good Lord, Sasha, even Irina, to name two, have come back in the past from significant injuries and illnesses. Give Michelle space please.

I'm saying that perhaps Michelle's injury has taken much out of her, but an elite athlete can overcome the physical very quickly once settled into the training routine again. It's regaining the will, the belief that you can do it that is hardest to do.

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Well said. ITA. Look what Nancy Kerrigan did in I think it was 6 weeks with the whack of all time to her knee (well, in figure skating at least, not talking Soprano whacks). I think people will be more than pleasantly surprised, let's say screaming for joy, jumping up and down, doing a tornado in their living rooms when they see Michelle at USN.

While I do think there's reason to put odds on Sasha, if nothing else because of her COP experience, the positive changes already to "R&J" by David Wilson, and Sasha's clear increase in strength since TEB (I talk more about my "too skinny" concerns in the thread where this should be, where the GPS and other competitions are, but hey, as long as people find the posts, fine with me). Anyway, I think Michelle wants that 10th consecutive US title more than she wants an Olympic anything, so if Sasha doesn't think she'll have a real fight on her hands, she better think again.

BTW, re OlliieBee's post: OllieBee, welcome and I hope you continue posting here too. But ITA with Doggygirl. In your response to Doggygirl you talked about how you've always seen a "stumble/bobble/fall" from Sasha at USN, which is very different from saying "Sasha's usual Sashasplat." I welcome you to say it and welcome you to express your opinion, just as Doggygirl and I are welcome to say what we feel and express our opinions, in this case that using the term "usual Sashasplat" was uncalled for. Freedom of opinion, within reason, is one of the things I like best about GS. People are free to express their opinions; the moderators and administrator are very liberal about that, with certain no-nos you can ask the mods about.

GS isn't uptight, IMO, but oftentimes, at least IMO, people who are used to posting on fan forums, and I'm not saying you are, OllieBee, find people who post their opposing opinions on skaters who are either beloved or hated on the fan forum unexpected. JMO.

Rgirl

Joesitz said:

Let's face it. Kwan was not up to par let alone any expectation of something special after 2 months of non practice. Sad, but that's the way it is in skateland.

on the plus side there were MIF expecially in the SP and her camel spins are quite beautiful and fast.

Peter Carruthers is a first class %@#*!!! Kwan could skate at her best and he would put her down every time. I believe there is something strange in his relationship with the Kwans . I don't think they get along.

My only question now is whether she will skate the Nats. She's not going to go for the sympathy skate. Not her style. So we don't really know how much she is hurting.

Joe

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i agree about caruthers. i just don't like him period. and even if mk wasn't in the picture i just don't like the way he has made some of his comments to certain skaters in the past and the tone of his voice is just annoying sometimes... in the end i wasn't surprised by the commentators' picks. i loved kwan's heart in YRMU (though i wasn't thrilled about the white Fallin' dress revival ), but these weren't her best skates, and im sure she knew it.

i dunno wut will happen at nats. i wouldn't be particularly surprised if sasha won. i think CoP works for her. but i will never count michelle out. my biggest gripe today is that her music is that wonky techno cut irina has. i was hoping she'd at LEAST skate to the more classical version. wut in sam hill was TT thinking :scratch:

Quote: Overall, I think she is out of shape a bit and that is understandable. It makes me wonder now what WILL happen at Nationals. End of Quote.

Michelle is disturbingly out of shape. To such an extent that it will be an uphill battle to get her weight down to an ideal performance level--even by Olympics. And in so doing, there is the problem of maintaining stamina while battling fitness and injury. I'm afraid the handwriting is on the wall for this Olympic year. And I certainly don't believe she will hang around for another Olympics. I guess the big question is just when she will choose to retire. This situation is a dramatic tearjerker for many of her fans.

Lucy25 said:

Also, I haven't seen this yet, but why is everyone so excited that Sasha landed two triple jumps in her program? Is it that hard for her to skate clean that this feat, when accomplished, is cause for gushing?

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Ummm, I haven't read about any celebrations or gushing over Sasha landing two clean jumps; so fans enjoyed her program, and so fans of Michelle and of skating are worried over her health (with good reason, as I go into below). So what???? I don't see any competitive comparing or other snarkiness going on in overall comments about Marshall's, as this comment would indicate, frankly speaking. Who is this "everyone" that's "so excited?"

The "doom and gloom" seems to me to be concern for Michelle, legitimate concern IMO not because of any failing of her own, but because of just how health and the human body's limitations (operative word here being HUMAN) have a way of imposing their sometimes difficult reality on legitimately lofty aspirations. I, for one, hope that the weeks from now to Nats, 4CC and Olympics will give Michelle enough time to be in good enough shape to go for broke, and, who knows? The brush with the potentially career-ending injury may just light that necessary spark under her that going into the 98 and 02 Olympics as the favorite (causing caution, nerves, etc.) may have extinguished. I root her and all the other skaters on; with Michelle being in the game this late (after having participated in 2 and almost 3 Olympic games), I can't imagine the contests of this coming winter going on without her. It may be a toss-up (will she or won't she), but things may have a way of working themselves out.

All the best to all the skaters!

Vegas Sandy said:

Yes Sasha is more flexible than Michelle, but I still don't see the great artistry from her that people gush about. I just don't. Michelle is still the only one who draws me into her performance whether up to par or not. The only time I saw a little from Sasha was at Nationals last year 2004 at the beginning of her program. If Michelle has not recovered much more in the next month, I hope she looks at things realisticly before making any future decisions. When she has left the building, I won't be watching much. I don't think the new wave is enjoyable to watch. The Biellman is one of the, if not the, ugliest move in ice skating. Yet, it gets extemely high marks in the new scope of things. There has to be a nicer way to judge flexibility.

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Maybe, um, it's a MATTER OF OPINION AND PERSONAL TASTE? Why has it got to be either or for some people? So you don't see what people gush about; that means that 1, their taste differs from yours and it's a subjective assessment all around or, 2, there is this objective thing called 'artistry' that skater x has and skater y lacks totally and why can't skater y's fans see that...jeez.


sarah m.

Gatzbee said:

i but i will never count michelle out. my biggest gripe today is that her music is that wonky techno cut irina has. i was hoping she'd at LEAST skate to the more classical version. wut in sam hill was TT thinking :scratch:

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ITA! Though she wasn't any where near her best today, I still think that she may be able to pull it together by Nationals. Totally agree about her sp music. The techno version is much more suited for Irina. I think a classical version would've been more fitting for Michelle.

Rgirl said:

BTW, re OlliieBee's post: OllieBee, welcome and I hope you continue posting here too. But ITA with Doggygirl. In your response to Doggygirl you talked about how you've always seen a "stumble/bobble/fall" from Sasha at USN, which is very different from saying "Sasha's usual Sashasplat." I welcome you to say it and welcome you to express your opinion, just as Doggygirl and I are welcome to say what we feel and express our opinions, in this case that using the term "usual Sashasplat" was uncalled for. Freedom of opinion, within reason, is one of the things I like best about GS. People are free to express their opinions; the moderators and administrator are very liberal about that, with certain no-nos you can ask the mods about.

GS isn't uptight, IMO, but oftentimes, at least IMO, people who are used to posting on fan forums, and I'm not saying you are, OllieBee, find people who post their opposing opinions on skaters who are either beloved or hated on the fan forum unexpected. JMO.

Rgirl

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I guess being an infrequent carouser on the figure skating message boards, I'm not an experienced enough poster to "get" what the big deal is. I , came today only because of the Marshall's comp, and can count on one hand the number of times I've posted other than today.

I supppose it's sometimes hard to discern "intent" by words on a screen. But being insulting was the furthest thing from my mind. That said, this honestly seems to me like much ado about nothing. There are many who obviously take the coments and opinions expressed FAR MORE SERIOUSLY than I do.That said. I shall go back into my lurking mode. I don't want to get caught up in verbal tit for tats defending some presumed malicious intent that I never had to start with.

Thanks for your perspective.