Is it too late? (age) - similar to another question | Golden Skate

Is it too late? (age) - similar to another question

bethissoawesome

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
hey everyone, i just signed up for the boards... so here goes my first question. i lived in florida my whole life, but now i am in new york city at columbia for college. my friend and i decided to take a private figure skating lesson so we wouldn't look like complete idiots under the rockefeller center tree. i always loved figure skating, but my parents never let me do it... instead i trained for about 7 years in ballet and gymnastics... later i used those skills for cheerleading and modern dance. i loved skating and the coach helping us said i should give it a shot. i have the opportunity for private lessons 3 hours a day, 5 days a week... of course, that would cost a lot of money. i don't expect to become some world class skater, because i am already 20. but my question is... is it worth it? what can you learn and how fast?
thanks :D
-beth
 

backspin

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
It is absolutely worth it and your dance background should give you a big head start. That said, you don't need 15 hours of lessons a week. Almost no one does! If you take a 1/2 hour lesson 2 times a week to start, that would be plenty. However then it's very important that you practice in between. Different coaches have different requirements as far as how much practice they want their students to get-- in general I skate 5 days a week & have 2 lessons a week (I'm working on my pre-gold dances, which is reasonably high level stuff).

If the coach you worked with is telling you that you need 3 hour lessons, 5 days a week, they're just scamming you to get the money (and it would cost an absolute fortune). Not to mention I couldn't even survive a 3 hour lesson! My brain AND body would give out long before we were through!

Most people start out in group classes, but my guess is you'll progress fairly quickly so private lessons might not be a bad idea right from the start. But you need time to practice on your own, repetition is the only way to get comfortable w/ the new skills.

I'd recommend you skate 1-2 hours each time on the ice, at least 3 times a week, with 1-2 lessons a week, & see how it goes from there.

Let us know how it goes!
 

dlkksk8fan

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I'm a 46 year old adult skater. I started skating again over 2yrs ago. I have passed my adult pre-bronze mif and freestyle tests. I skate 3-4 days a week and take one half hour lesson a week with a private coach. I sometimes will have an extra lesson when I am close to testing, but a half hour lesson once a week is fine.

It is never to late to learn to skate. You can test and compete as an adult.
 

bethissoawesome

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
i don't know a lot of the details about skating... but what is the difference between competing as an amateur or as an adult?
 

julietvalcouer

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
Adult testing standards are a little different--basically it's designed so the empahsis isn't on strength or speed. It's also fewer tests for MIF, iirc. (I remember thinking how they broke it up is a little odd, as some things that are on the Pre-Pre MIF don't show up until Adult Bronze, but AB also has some things that aren't on the standard track until Pre-Juv.) Personally, I'm testing standard, even though I'm 27--I'm strong and fast enough that I don't need the allowance Adult makes for less power. (If anything, my usual focus on things like back crossovers is "Don't let the circle get out of control and crash into the boards.") I'm also an ice dancer, so I don't have to worry abou the Freestyle tests unless I want to.

Personally I'd love to train 15 hours a week, and now if I had the chance I'd do it, but a year ago, when I could basically just stroke around the rink, I wouldn't have gone for it. I started with a half-hour private lesson, once a week, while skating about two hours a day, M-F. After a few months, once I'd gotten decent skates and a little better control over the basics, I added a half-hour with another coach. This was about the time my coaches and I decided that I was going to start testing and what track. A couple months after that, I switched to full-hour lessons with each of them, once a week. Right now, I'm skating three days a week, about two and a half hours a time, with more when I can squeeze it in, and I'm dreading my break because I might not get to skate as much back home. If I were you, I'd start out slow, and then as you go, add more lesson time as it seems necessary.

Your dance training will be a big plus, with one caveat--my ballet training at times can be a hassle, because I have really open hips and pronounced turnout. For some things, this gets in the way, but with some focus I'm getting over it. Your posture should be near-perfect for skating, though, and the discipline is a big help.
 

dlkksk8fan

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
"Adult testing standards are a little different--basically it's designed so the empahsis isn't on strength or speed."

Oh how I wish that was true. They want to see strength and speed even though you are testing as a Adult.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
The adult tests for MIF were designed to emphasize skills judges expect to see at a given FS level and as such were mixed up from the standard track levels from Pre-pre to Intermediate with different passing standards on the specific move from the standard track depending on which adult test it is (pass/retry only for PreBronze, 2.5 passing average for Bronze, 2.7 passing average for Silver, and 3.0 passing average for Gold). When you have passed your Adult Gold you grandfather back to the standard track at the Intermediate level and can choose to keep testing from there.

Those testing on the adult track or beyond (Intermediate-Senior) who are over the age of 21 can go to Adult Sectionals and Adult Nationals instead of having to make a cut off age for a given level below Novice (but a skater cannot skate standard track qualifying AND adult track in the same season). These are off-set in time from standard Sectionals and Nationals and Adult Nationals begin at the Adult Bronze level (all single jumps except axel are allowed) while standard Nationals begin at the Novice level (several triples are usually attempted and landed) or Junior Nationals (Juvenile <13 and Intermediate <17, where at least a double axel is needed to make it that far). Adult Nationals has qualifying Championship levels (top 4 from Sectionals qualify at Gold and Masters and in Dance as well) and open events (each level which are also separated by age). Adult Nationals tends to attract 500-1000 competitors annually. Although we take our skating seriously, we also know we aren't going to the Olympics and it is also a chance to meet up with our friends from around the country who we may only get to see once a year.

Anyway, how fast you progress and how far you get really depends on you...
 

julietvalcouer

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
dlkksk8fan said:
"Adult testing standards are a little different--basically it's designed so the empahsis isn't on strength or speed."

Oh how I wish that was true. They want to see strength and speed even though you are testing as a Adult.

Yes, but they're not going to fail to pass you if you're slow, IF you meet the Adult standard--which right in the rulebook on the MIF charts says "Extension and Flow." The emphasis for Standard is "Power." It's right there in the rulebook.

And honestly, it's the whole hang-out-with-friends and have fun thing and the general attitude impression I got from the Adult Nationals/Worlds diaries in Skating that kinda put me off the whole Adult track, anyway. Though I'm sure there are some hypercompetitive people there, it's hard to say just by reading.
 

sk8addict

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 22, 2004
never too late

OK, I'm not figure skating but last year I had to have my left ear disconnected from my brain. I had to learn balance again. When my balance therapist was finished with me I wasn't happy yet so I started roller skating. After a $3000 hospital visit & 8 staples in my head i decided to take some lessons & wear a helment. Now I skate 3 times a week for an hour & a half each time & I love it. I'm 56.
 

nicole_l

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
FYI you have to be 25 in order to test & compete as an Adult. If you aren't comfortable competing with 12 year olds, you'll have to wait until then to compete. However I would definitely recommend skating for fun. Check to see if your school has a rink and if there is public ice for students. Mine has free ice for students, and usually there's practically no one there so I can practice. If you're just starting out you can get by with group lessons once a week or a private lesson with a younger (re: inexpensive) coach once a week. (If you have the chance to take 15 hours/week from one coach, that probably means that they don't have any students and aren't any good. Besides, you probably need that time to study!) Hope this helps and maybe we'll see you at some collegiate competitions soon!
 

dlkksk8fan

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
"Yes, but they're not going to fail to pass you if you're slow"

I talk with one of the judges last week after my test and she made a point to tell me I look slower then what I think I look like and that they do want to see power & strength. I pushed and had more speed and power then last time and it still wasn't enough. All well.
 

bethissoawesome

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
"When you have passed your Adult Gold you grandfather back to the standard track at the Intermediate level and can choose to keep testing from there. "

-is the adult track then just another route to get to the intermediate level and beyond without competing with kids? if you pass the adult gold and return to the intermediate track, can you still test and compete in higher levels normally (out of curiousity, because being in those competitions is wishful thinking hehe)... take the U.S. Championships for Juniors or Seniors, for instance, could you test into those or no? would you have to ultimately do adult competitions if you start with the adult track?

" or Junior Nationals (Juvenile <13 and Intermediate <17, where at least a double axel is needed to make it that far)."

-is there an age requirement for taking the standard track or for the competitions people usually do in the standard track?

sorry, for all the questions. i'm just new to this, and thanks again to everyone for their advice. it's been great so far, i love it, and am so glad i finally decided to try it out. today i had my third lesson (but i've been skating every day since the first, which, granted, wasn't too long ago), after warming up for awhile, i worked on spirals (learned them in the 2nd lesson), and forward crossovers, started backwards crossovers and my first jump, which i was pretty surprised about, because i thought they would come much later, a waltz jump... made several attempts at three-turns but fell a lot of the time. Luckily, my balance on the ice seems to be good, but things don't look exactly pretty yet. going from just doing it to making it look good is a big leap. somethings feel a little rushed though. i feel like i still need to work on more basic things first, like improving my skating technique (my boyfriend says i like somewhat robotic unless i am gliding/spiral) and STOPPING (i have a tremendously hard time doing this and i have no idea why, i can't even do a snowplow stop, i have to stop by spinning). what do you all think about the speed of the things be learned? is it too rushed? i really have no idea, so any advice would be helpful.

also, i think i am extremely right foot dominant, i think this is what is keeping me from being able to do a simple snowplow stop, when i push out (don't exactly know how to describe it), only my right leg will move... are there any exercises to help balance that?

thanks again-
beth
 

backspin

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
There are now crossover rules in place that go between the standard test structure & the adult test structure (for Moves tests only, I believe, until you've passed adult gold). However, I'd encourage you to try the standard test track for a few reasons: you're very young, in fact you won't even qualify to test as an adult for another year. You obviously are picking things up fast, & my guess is that you're fully capable of testing standard track (the adult track is easier). If you ever want to compete adult level, it's fairly easy now to cross over from the standard track.

There is no age requirement for testing on the standard track. There are age requirements for competition. Since you are 20, you'd have to compete novice level or above. (in case no one's told you the levels are: pre-preliminary, preliminary, pre-juvenile, juvenile, intermediate, novice, junior, senior). The last three have no age limits. If you become a singles skater, you'll need a double axel & a couple of very good triple attempts to be competitive at novice. (note that the novice *test* requirements are much lower)

Re. commenting on how fast you're being taught things.....seems a little "out of order" to me, but I don't know everything you've covered. I have a student go through (& get comfortable with) all their edges, forward & backward, mohawks, 3-turns, all crossovers, lots of stroking work fwd & bkwd; before I'd get them jumping. But the coach may be just teaching you a few "tricks" now at first & will settle down into a more structured lesson plan later.....? Basic skating skills are the foundation of EVERYTHING and cannot be glossed over, or emphasized too much.
 

julietvalcouer

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
Uh, personally, I tend to just use a t-stop (putting one foot behind and at a right angle to the other and using the outside edge of the back blade as a brake.) I *can* snowplow, and also hockey stop, but I feel like t-stopping has more control.

For testing the standard track, there are no age limits. I'm 27 and just took pre-pre moves. However, to *compete* at Novice and Junior levels does have IIRC an upper age limit. I think. I'm not competing or planning to for a while so it's not an issue yet, so I'm not very clear on the rules.

Spirals after two lessons? How is your edge control? Or are you talking just the flat-of-the-blade version?

Three-turns are hard to pick up when you're just starting, but I promise they get easier if you just practice, practice, practice! It took me weeks to get my left outside three, though fortunately it picked a good time to become solidly consistent--the waltz eight during my pre-pre MIF test! Weirdly, they clicked in right then and I haven't had a problem with them since. Inside threes I got in about one lesson.

The only advice I can give about a dominant leg is force yourself to work the non-dominant side more. I always warm up with forward perimiter stroking and I make myself start clockwise, which makes me do left progressives around the end. Because my left foot is a weaker pushing foot for me, that side is more awkward (though when it comes to spins and, should I ever do them, jumps, I'm a "lefty" and spin clockwise.) It's like when I was having problems with my left threes, or right inside mohawks and three-turns, I just made myself practice that side more. Eventually, it evens out.

When it comes to speed of learning, I might not be the one to ask as I'm considered a quick study (I went from being unable to skate backwards in January to passing all the Preliminary dances and Pre-Pre MIF by November, and the only reason I won't be testing the first Pre-Bronze dance in January is my coach, who partners me, has to be at another rink the day of the test, so it's off til February, when I'll hopefully be testing Preliminary MIF, too.) However, I would be very careful about working on spirals with edges and jumps yet, especially if you don't have three-turns or solid back crossovers yet. Are you in a basic skills class, or private lessons? If basic skills, work on what they tell you. If you're dealing with a private coach, I'd ask about working with Moves in the Field. My coaches might emphasize edgework more than most as they're both dancers (which is what they're training me to be) but it really does do wonders--working on the edges on the line improved my skating in general, the waltz eight helped with timing and forced me to master the outside threes, and I'm building into spirals with correct technique and working on controlling my speed on back crossovers working on the figure eights for the Preliminary test.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
You can compete in the US at the Novice or above level at any age. You cannot compete internationally as a Junior over a certain age.

The adult tests are not "easier", that is a mis-nomer. Judges are judges and have certain expectations no matter adult or standard.

Adults enjoy competition and the time spent hanging out with one another because we all know we have different things that cause us to only be able to skate a certain amount since we have jobs, family, etc that take precedence over skating. We set our goals differently in competition than elite skaters. For some people, the goal is just to get there. If you ever spend time on skatingforums, you'll see the prebronze peanut gallery whose goals are to qualify for Adult Nationals....
 

backspin

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Adult tests have a lower passing score than standard track tests. The adult Moves in the Field tests don't include all of the elements of the standard tests. For dance you don't have to solo the dances.

I'm an adult skater (dancer) & have tested both adult and standard track (through silver as an adult, then went back & started over standard. Now on pre-golds). Believe me, it is easier to pass the adult tests!

I'm not saying the adult tests are a snap to pass & that you don't have to skate well. You just are judged to a higher standard & more is expected of a standard track skater. If they were the same, there'd be no need for an adult track.
 
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julietvalcouer

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
backspin said:
Adult tests have a lower passing score than standard track tests. The adult Moves in the Field tests don't include all of the elements of the standard tests. For dance you don't have to solo the dances.

I'm an adult skater (dancer) & have tested both adult and standard track (through silver as an adult, then went back & started over standard. Now on pre-golds). Believe me, it is easier to pass the adult tests!

I'm not saying the adult tests are a snap to pass & that you don't have to skate well. You just are judged to a higher standard & more is expected of a standard track skater. If they were the same, there'd be no need for an adult track.

Thank you, backspin. I was starting to feel like I was losing my mind, especially as my coaches have said, the only reason for me to switch to Adult track would be, and I quote, if, once I hit Novice or Junior, the tests get "too hard", but at the moment they don't think that's likely unless I have a serious injury.

And yes, most adults don't have the time to devote to training. Which does affect quality. I'm lucky in that I don't have any sort of family committments and am in a career field that doesn't have 9-5 hours (and if something is going to suffer from lack of sleep, I let the work suffrer, or rather my coworkers as a tired me is a cranky me. And, in the TMI category, they have to deal with that from me once a month like clockwork anyway.) I can put in a lot more rink time than most people my age, which is fine. If the choice is going out in the evening and drinking/dancing/whatever, and getting up at 6 to make an early open ice, I'll give the socializing a miss. If that's obsessive, so be it. But I'd rather skate than have a social life.
 

backspin

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Well, the thing is if you get past intermediate in Moves there's no point switching to adult track because adult gold Moves is roughly equivalent to intermediate (it doesn't include the back power 3's end pattern element). If you've passed intermediate moves, you're already beyond what is covered on the adult track. Once someone passes adult gold moves they can grandfather to the standard track starting with intermediate moves.

p.s.--I too refuse to get an 8-5 job & freelance instead because of the freedom it allows me to skate on a flexible schedule. Obsessed person #2 here!!
 
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