Christians are stupid comment at Christmas party | Golden Skate

Christians are stupid comment at Christmas party

Johar

Medalist
Joined
Dec 16, 2003
My friend is a devout Christian and believes everything in the Bible. While at her office Christmas party some of her co-workers kept saying how "stupid Christians are," which really offended her. They also inserted words in to say that they are naive, unwordly and uptight.

How should she have handled this? She said she remained quiet and walked away, but was in tears when by herself.
 

Piel

On Edge
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
I think I would have started with how stupid is for non Christians to be celebrating a Christian holiday.
 

PrincessLeppard

~ Evgeni's Sex Bomb ~
Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
It's difficult to know how to handle this. I don't think she should've insulted them back, then she just comes across as petty. Perhaps she could've just gently told them they are stereotyping, which they were.

Also, how long has she worked there? If she's new, it's harder to bring attention like this to yourself. When I had just been at my job for about two months, a co-worker's husband made the statement we should "nuke San Francisco and get rid of all the homosexuals." (guy also claimed to be a devout Christian, btw...) Anyway, I said nothing at the time, but the next year, I let him know, kindly, how much the statement bothered me, and that he might want to re-read certain Bible passages. But I digress.

If it was just a few co-workers, people that she doesn't really care for, I would just say let it go.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Here's what she should do (this falls under the commandment, "do good to those who spitefully use you," MATT 5:44, LOL).

Leave some breath mints and deodorant at the miscreant's desk, with a little note saying, "from your secret Santa." :)

MM

PS. To me, it is not an insult to be called "unworldly." IMHO you sell yourself short if you allow your spirit to wither while chasing money, fame and all the rest of it.
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
If they are in management positions, she should speak with someone in HR since they have technically placed her in an uncomfortable position which is a result of a violation of EEOC standards.

Are people aware that she's a devout Christian? I know some Christians that are somewhat 'holier than thou', but my friends are the people who respect my right to practice (or not practice) my chosen religious beliefs. If these co-workers don't know that she's Christian, then they are plain idiots, but did not intend to insult her personally.

I'm sure that some of them will feel bad if they were to become aware of her religious beliefs.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
it never ceases to amaze me how people bend over backwards not to offend their Jewish/Wiccan/Muslim/etc co-workers but if it involves Christianity screw it all they're free game.

Personally? I'd have left the party as it's obvious I wasn't wanted, and then I would have complained to their supervisors or the higher ups saying that My religious views were attacked at the Christmas party. If they didn't care, I'd call the Liberty Council. It obviously put emotional turmoil into something that was supposed to be a happy event. No one needs to walk around and scream "I'm Jewish/Muslim/Whatever" without being able to complain, it should also be the same for Christians.

but that's just me, I'm a drama queen lol (to be honest I probably would have gotten into a heated discussion with them that just got me even more upset but that's me lol)
 

dlkksk8fan

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I would of just shook my head and realized how "stupid" people can be when they make comments like that. Your friend should of just ignored them and not of taken it personally. Their comments show you that they are "stupid", "naive", "uptight", & "unworldly".

Somethimes people say things and don't realize what they are saying. If you bring it to their attention they might think twice before speaking.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
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Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
If she's relatively new to the job, her coworkers may not even know that she is a devout Christian. While their remarks may have been cruel, and totally uncalled for, they may well not have been personally aimed at her. Many people are just not very observant in any case, and may not have registered that she is a Christian, even if she has been there for a while.

And on the other hand, some people are supersensitive, and may have expanded a snide (and therefore not very smart) comment into a total condemnation of Christians. You might ask for exact quotes. You may find that she was hearing some people who are terrifically disgruntled about this silly problem that some Christians are having with people who don't know them wishing them Happy Holidays or Season's Greetings instead of Merry Christmas, in which case the problem is not a condemnation of Christians but only of some Christians (still out of place at a party), but to me totally understandable because I also think it's a silly tempest in a teapot.

My greeting to you is a little gift to you. It is not about me and whether I am Christian. It is about you, and what greeting might make you happiest. If you are a Christian, I would wish you Merry Christmas. However, if I don't know your religion, I would wish you a happy holiday, since even the atheists are having a holiday from work. And frankly, I think that there's a good chance that that's what the Prince of Peace would want me to do.

It is truly amazing what people will say to people they don't know, or in the hearing of people they don't know. The other day, apropos of almost nothing, while I was waiting in a line at a coffee shop, a gentleman in front of me wanted to know why people in CT were more murderous than people in San Francisco. He went off on the subject of knives and so forth. I told him that my dad had been stabbed to death, and it probably was not nice to make jokes about ropes in the house of a hanged man.

People will say anything. Unless there were managers, or were deliberately and directly maligning her, I would just forget it, but make it more clear that I was a Christian so it wouldn't happen again.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Tonichelle said:
it never ceases to amaze me how people bend over backwards not to offend their Jewish/Wiccan/Muslim/etc co-workers but if it involves Christianity screw it all they're free game...
Toni, I wish people were nicer. But still, I don't think it is a symmetric situation with respect to the majority culture in contrast with minorities.

Most people in the United States, whether they practice any religion or not, have some kind of Christian background. The worst thing a born again Christian will ever have to suffer for his or her religion is an ocassioinal snide remark.

In contrast, when the majority gets it into their heads to pick on minority groups, that's when the danger arises of really bad stuff, like widespead and systematic persecution, mass murder -- that sort of thing.

IMHO bending over backwards is not too great a price to pay.

MM
 

Lanie

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mathman said:
Most people in the United States, whether they practice any religion or not, have some kind of Christian background. The worst thing a born again Christian will ever have to suffer for his or her religion is an ocassioinal snide remark.

I avoid avoid avoid mentioning I'm a born again Christian because if I do I get so much crap for it. If someone asks me what religion I am I just say I'm a Christian...because I am. *shrug* People think I'm some Bible thumping crazy who'll randomly start quoting Genesis or something, you know? It's stereotyping to the max. So I just shut up. If someone says Merry Xmas to me, I say it back to 'em. At work I said happy holidays, but if someone said Merry Xmas I said it right back. It's just like: you don't talk about politics or religion! I don't do it on forums either because I also get my head bit off. ;)
 

Antilles

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I must admit I've never really understood the term "born-again" Christian. I've never heard people of other religions who have found faith in adulthood refer to themselves as as born-again. Does it really matter when faith was found?
 

Tenorguy

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Dumb Comments

Lanie - I feel for you and your friend. Two things I can say:

firstly: I agree with Heyang, if these kinds of comments are repeated in the workplace, your friend should report them to HR. At my job, we used to have problems with a core of good-ole-boys who saw nothing wrong with sharing their views on religion, sexuality, family law, gender issues - you name it. HR worked hard for 2 or 3 years to work on sensivity issues in the work place, and I can say it has really helped. People for the most part feel free to express themselves appropriately while observing decorum to avoid embarrassment; that's not an easy balance.

secondly: Office Christmas - oops - Holiday parties are just the best environment possible to breed derision, boredom, boorish behavior, and disdain in attendees. Just know that you and your friend have been given grace to withstand such trivialities as OFFICE PARTIES! Yikes! I dread them like the flu.

My take: if there is a professional problem in the workplace, she must report that to HR. If its just people being people - stand fast and smile and trust and be at peace if you can. People just act really "small" sometimes.

Tenorguy
 

new_europe2006

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Antilles said:
I must admit I've never really understood the term "born-again" Christian. I've never heard people of other religions who have found faith in adulthood refer to themselves as as born-again. Does it really matter when faith was found?

I don't understand the term "born again" Christian either. It doesn't matter when your faith was found, what matters is that you find it.
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
As a non-practicer of any particular religion, I've observed that there seems to be harsh feelings between some Christians and some Catholics.

Christians don't seem to respect the rituals of the Catholic Church - after all, going to mass doesn't mean you're a good person, especially if you turn around and sleep with someone who's not your spouse.

Catholics consider themselves Christians too and don't understand why some people disinguish themselves as Christians - after all, both religions are about learnin the lessons of God's son Jesus.....

I say that everyone should learn to respect that the other person may have different beliefs (or non-beliefs), as long as they are not harming society. Practicing religion does not make one better or worse than anyone else.

If one were to study the history of religions, many are just branches of the same tree.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Antilles said:
I must admit I've never really understood the term "born-again" Christian. I've never heard people of other religions who have found faith in adulthood refer to themselves as as born-again. Does it really matter when faith was found?
New Europe said:
I don't understand the term "born again" Christian either. It doesn't matter when your faith was found, what matters is that you find it.
I am certainly no expert, but I think the idea goes something like this. In the New Testament, Jesus says (John 3:3), "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God," and (John 3:5), "Except a man be born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Christian theologians have been wrangling over the meaning of these words ever since.

It is generally accepted that being "born of water" refers to the ritual of baptism, which thus has central place in liturgical practice in almost all Christian denominations. In baptism, so Christians believe, you are "buried" in the waters and the old sinful person that you used to be dies. The new you rises out of the waters, freed from your disobedient past and ready to walk in a new relationship with God. This mirrors Jesus dying on the cross bearing the sins of the world, and his subsequent resurrection to a new life in the Spirit.

Of course after this transformation takes place you are expected to show it in your subsequent word and deeds.

There is no particular age at which this miracle is required to take place, but people who call themselves "born again" usually do not believe in infant baptism. That is, you have to be old enough to make a conscious and informed decision. (Babies cannot commit sins because they are too young to form wicked thoughts; therefore they do not need to be cleansed in baptism -- plus, they don't know what they're doing anyway, so it is impossible for them to have a "change of heart" and seek a renewal of the spirit.)

In contrast, believers in the efficacy of infant baptism usually reason something like this. Every person, simply by being born into the imperfect family of mankind, inherits the "sin of Adam." That is, just by being human you necessarily fall short of the glory of God. So you have to be sanctified in baptism right away, to enter into the protection of the church and the kingdom of God, even as an young child. The devil is after your soul from day one, and he does not give you a grace period.

Something like that. (?)

MM :)
 

backspin

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Mathman,

I was going to reply to the questions, but you said it very well. In most evangelical circles the terms "Christian" and "Born again" are interchangeable; in other words, there is no such thing as a Christian who is not 'born again'. The way I was taught was it had less to do with the moment of baptism (that is a visual outward expression of the inward decision/change) & more with the moment of conversion; you are choosing to lay aside your old life and asking God to give you a new, redeemed life which will be lived in obedience to Him. So you are "dying" to the old nature of sin and self, and stepping into a 'new life' of obedience where you do what God would want you to do, not necessarily what you want to do.

In the Bible the term is being used as a kind of visual aid to help people understand what converting to Christianity means--that it's supposed to be a lifelong commitment to living in obedience to God.

I don't know where/who came up w/ the term "born again Christian" to mean a certain kind of Christian?

ETA: I was also raised w/ baptism being an adult's decision to publicly "announce" their decision of faith. Children/infants are not baptized because they have not made any decisions yet about whether or not they will follow the religion's teaching. We call it an "age of accountability" when a child reaches an age that they could understand & make a decision for themselves. Baptism comes after conversion in most protestant denominations.

Also the thing re. Catholics vs. Christians--I think the right wording would actually be Catholics vs. Protestants. Protestants don't believe in a lot of the Catholic traditions, such as infant baptisms, saints, confession, etc.
 
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julietvalcouer

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
The pre-Vatican II justification for infant baptism was, among others, that if the infant died without being Baptized (and that happened a LOT in the days before modern medicine) then the stain of original sin prevented them from entering heaven. They instead went to Limbo, which isn't heaven, but isn't Purgatory, either (which is basically Hell with an eventual Get out of Jail Free card after you've been sufficiently punished--there is Biblical justification for this, but don't get me started.) However, if they were Baptized and thus cleared of original sin, and then died before they reached the age of reason and could be counted as personally responsible for any sins they'd commited, they went to heaven. With the infant mortality rate as it was, it's understandable. Now it's considered more the washing away of original sin, plus an initial introduction into the Church family, and the granting of responsibility to the godparents. For Catholics, the godparents must be Catholic and are nominally responsible for monitoring the child's spiritual upbringing.

For Catholics, Baptism's not the induction into full church membership it seems to be for those who go in for adult/immersion Baptism. Catholics have a lot of steps to go through, from first Confession and Communion (around age 7 or so, when children are considered old enough to distinguish wrong from right), and Confirmation, which is usually around age 14 and after which you're fully responsible for your own membership in the Church.

And yes, Catholics (and the Orthodox, for that matter) are not only Christians but were Christians centuries before any of the other denominations were even thought up, which makes it annoying for some of us when "Christians" are like, "Are you Christian or Catholic?" Did they miss the big Jesus at the front of Catholic churches, and the fact that the Mass is pretty much all about Jesus? If anything, we probably slight the holy spirit part of the Trinity more than the others. Jesus was a Jew, the first Christians formed what became the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, and a few sects of gnostics that died out. There were no Protestants for more than a thousand years after Christ. They do not get a monopoly on the word "Christian."

Sorry. Catholics get it from both sides--secularists who don't like religion in general, and Protestants who think we're idol-worshipping Papists. We can be touchy sometimes. (But you should see us bicker with each other!)

As far as the OP goes, I would bring it up with her supervisors. That's called "creation of a hostile work environment." It's no different than if she was at a work-sponsored event and people were making derogatory statements about her race or gender. They can be bigots in their own homes, but should know better than to mouth off at work.
 

Engwaciriel

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
I think I would have started with how stupid is for non Christians to be celebrating a Christian holiday.

But isn't "christmas" originally an Roman/pagan tradition that was sort of transformed into a christian tradition because it sutied the ones who ruled Rome. In that case it would be stupid for all of us to celebrate christmas..
 
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