GP Final from CBC | Golden Skate

GP Final from CBC

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Seemed kind of late to be adding to the other threads, so I thought I'd start a new one with my random thoughts about the GPF - I just saw it on CBC this weekend.

First - two entries in Worst Costume EVER: Tatiana Navka's OD "dress" - it wasn't even Vegas showgirl, it was Vegas stripper. The tuft of blue feathers on her ***, the teeny, tiny rest of it in blue and brown leapard spots - I don't know that I've ever seen anything so hideous in my life. I almost didn't watch the dance I was so distracted by the sheer awfulness of what I suppose I must generously call her "skating dress."
In the men's field there was Lambiel once again in that atrocious white and orange zebra-striped monstrosity. Get a new costume man!

Onto the actual skating.....
Mens: The short programs were a joy to behold. Oda, Takahashi, Buttle and Lambiel all had great ones, though I have to say, Oda's choreography is the first I've seen from David Wilson that I actively dislike. Both his short and long programs weren't very good. They made him look very young, for starters, and he didn't seem comfortable with the slightly comedic intent. Now Browning could have pulled that off, but not the just-out-of-juniors Oda. He doesn't have much of an artistic connection with the music yet, but that will probably come with time.
Takahashi I was very impressed with. His artistry shone. The commentators said it was obvious he really enjoyed skating to his SP music, and I have to agree. He was totally free out there. Also a wonderful job in the long.
Having read some of the comments on the threads here before seeing the event, I expected Buttle's long to be a disaster, but in actuality it wasn't nearly as bad as I was led to believe. Sure, he had a couple of blips on the jump landings, but he fully rotated all of them and had two triple axels - I know I read a comment somewhere that he didn't have any??? and I can't understand it. He stepped out of his second one, but his first was textbook, in combination with a slightly flawed triple toe. I don't think any of the other men even attempted the triple axel-triple combination. No quad, but then, several of the others fell on their attempts. I would have liked to see a cleaner skate, but in no way was it a total failure, and I would argue with anybody who said he was held up unfairly by the judges here.
Lambiel was great with the two quads, however I didn't like his program as much as I did earlier in the season when I saw it with less successful jumps. I'm not quite sure why....does anybody know if he's taken some of the choreography out?

Ice Dance:
Navka/Kostamorov looked smoother than earlier in the season, and it's not the worst FD I've ever seen, but not terribly memorable IMO. No doubt, however, this will be good enough to win them gold at the Olympics. Their OD music - also used by G&G (I think it was them) always reminds me of Torvill and Dean's masterpiece OD in Lillehammer - it's the only time I think I've ever really seen any ice dance team capture any kind of credible latin feel on skates. Needless to say, both teams' OD's suffer by comparasin.

I preferred G&G's FD from last season. I'm sitting her now typing a day later and I can't say I remember much about their program. Not a good sign.

D&L - these guys were fabulous (yes, I'm a proud Canadian fan, if you couldn't tell) So happy they're having a great season, and so happy to be genuinely interested in their material - I haven't always been in the past. I like both the OD and their FD is a signature piece for them. A few more miles on these and they'll really be challenging.
One beef - learn how to twizzle already. It's a required element and they do it comparatively badly. They're slow, tentative and often out of synch. I find it the one glaring area where a number of other teams have a obvious advantage over them.

Was really disappointed CBC didn't show Del&S. I loved this team - my faves from the Worlds last year - and I wanted to see their new material. I understand it wasn't a great skate for them, but I still would have been interested to see the dances themselves.

Pairs:
This is by far the discipline I'm least interested in these days. The programs almost all look like a series of disconnected elements with the skaters painting by numbers. None of the top teams are anything special. When Tot/M most likely win the Olympic gold, it'll be one of the most mediocre wins in a long while. They're kind of the best of a boring lot. In their favour, they are smooth, polished, and actually manage to look like a pair on the ice and have some kind of chemistry. Try as I might, though, I just can't love them.
Then there's P&T. I was shocked, shocked I tell you to actually find this team exciting in the SP. I have never found this team exciting. Ever. Not even when they won worlds. But for some reason, their short was rather inspired. It was like they were skating to music. And were excited. Unfortunately all that had left the building by the time they did their long to a dreadful piece of musak that did nothing for them.
Zhang and Zhang looked robotic as always. This team has no chemistry with each other and none with their music or the audience. They have a series of impressive tricks as opposed to choreography. They could very well be on the podium in Turin. Sigh.
S&S - the German pair. Hmmmm. Slightly interesting. They have potential. I don't think they're quite there yet, but they can get there.
O&S - I think this team has actually devolved. They seem worse now than when I first saw them and thought they had potential. Their programs are dreadful - this year and last - and I'm sure that doesn't help them. But for all their classic Russian style, they have almost zero connection with any music I've seen them skate to. This team is stagnating and need an overhaul.

Ladies:
Yeah, Asada was impressive - but IMO overrated. She still looks like a little girl competing with women. I know some don't agree, but seeing her at the GPF just reinforced this view for me. Slutskaya (and I'm not a fan) just looked miles ahead of her, even with the flaws in her skate, on overall presentation. As did pretty much the rest of the field, even Nakano and Ando.
I wasn't terribly impressed by the ladies competition. Not many of the skates really interested me.
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Hi Rain

Thanks for writing up your detailed thoughts. I always learn about new things to observe from reading the detailed comments of others. For many years I sort of ignored Dance. A big part of the reason I ignored it was the feeling that "the fix was in" - seemingly in a far more dramatic way than the other diciplines. (of course this may or may not be true - just my impression of things). These days, I'm trying to develop more of an appreciation for dance, so commentary in this dicipline is particularly interesting to me.

PML at your costume remarks. Couldn't agree more!!!! IMO, Lambiel's costume almost makes Joubert's boat costume season opener last year look tame by comparison. Not sure what to say about Navka's costume. It's funny - Mr. Doggy has no interest in FS, so it's pretty rare that he watches events with me. One evening last week I was playing some of the GPF from the US broadcast, and when Mr. Doggy saw that costume he busted out laughing. I think the words "porn star" were used. ;)

One thing is for sure - there is rarely a dull competition when it comes to costume commentary.

DG
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I came away with two main impressions about the ladies. First, this really is a sport for teenagers. Mao won the athletic competition hands down. Artistry? That's where professional and show skating comes in.

IMHO the more the ISU tries to make figure skating a "real sport," the more the kids will rule.

Second observation -- the traditional skating skirt is history. The ladies looked so much better -- also more stylish -- in pants.

MM :)
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Mathman said:
I came away with two main impressions about the ladies. First, this really is a sport for teenagers. Mao won the athletic competition hands down. Artistry? That's where professional and show skating comes in.

IMHO the more the ISU tries to make figure skating a "real sport," the more the kids will rule.

Second observation -- the traditional skating skirt is history. The ladies looked so much better -- also more stylish -- in pants.

MM :)

I agree with the 'kids rule' in the ladies event but not in the other 3 disciplines.

About the skirt- I had read that Sonja Henie brought the short skirts in fashion. Looks like the pants might take over now. However, they look good only on some of the ladies. I hope they don't all switch over to pants.

Vash
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I came away with two main impressions about the ladies. First, this really is a sport for teenagers. Mao won the athletic competition hands down. Artistry? That's where professional and show skating comes in.

I'm very interested in this comment you just made. I think there's a lot of truth behind this. And ITA- if you want artistry, that's what professional skating is for. But one thing- skaters who TURN pro in the future might not have this trait.
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Mathman said:
ISecond observation -- the traditional skating skirt is history. The ladies looked so much better -- also more stylish -- in pants.

MM :)

:love: Mr. Doggy totally agrees!!:love: :love:

I appreciate your other point as well. I've been thinking that I would LOVE to know how the Japan Nationals performances for the ladies would have fared under an international judging panel. Fumie / Shiz types v. Mao with equivalent performances. (granted, Mao did not skate as well at JN as she did at GPF). Maybe the more interesting "what if" would be how Mao's GPF performance against Shiz/Fumie's JN performances would have fared score wise under an international panel. I suspect Mao would win that "what if." I don't trust a cross comp score sheet comparison at all in this "what if" since Nationals don't have international judging panels.

Oh well...just random musings...

I do find myself hoping that somehow, some way, professional competitions can be resurected. I really enjoyed the ice wars (might have the name wrong) competition that aired a few weeks or so ago. I enjoyed most of the skating, but especially the pairs. I would absolutely be willing to watch more of that.

DG
 

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
After seeing the event, the womens long program judging was definitely wrong. Irina should have beaten Mao by enough on GOE on jumps, GOE on spins, and PCS, that she should have won the long overall, even with Mao's superior jump content. The short was judged correctly however, dont know how it would have worked out overall. Mao's hooked camel is not done correctly and really looks bad compared to Irina's, and while Irina's Biellman is not the best atleast she tries to do it the right way, while Mao tries to twist it sideways to make it easier, and somehow gets rewarded highly for it from the judges.

Lambiel deserved higher PCS scores in both programs than he got, and much higher GOE scores on his spins in the long than he got. Buttle was a bit dissapointing, but better than he has been up until now. Takahashi was quite good and overmarked as usual. Sandhu was a disaester, Oda was dissapointing too.

Totmianina/Marinin were very good, very efficient; however Zhang/Zhang challenged them in the long with a techinicaly more demanding program. It might not be as easy as earlier predicted for Totmianina/Marinin in Turin. Petrova/Tikhonov were dissapointing in the long, they really need to make the program more exciting, and work on their endurance, otherwise their elusive Olympic medal, the only things missing in their great careers, will remain elusive. Savchenko/Swolkowsky were robbed on PCS scores, how on earth their PCS scores are barely higher than Zhang/Zhang and far below Totmianina/Marinin is beyond me, the judges dont fully appreciate the wonderful musical interpretation, and the softness and subtleness of this teams skating.

The dance event showed how dominant and unbeatable Navka/Kostomarov are. Anybody who thinks Belbin/Agosto are a threat to them are very optimistic IMHO. Grushina/Goncharov still need work on their free program, which using the musical phrasing as well as they could. If Dubreuil/Lauzon can polish their original dance they might be able to finish ahead of the Ukranians and Turin.
 

schuttler1

Spectator
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
For once

rain said:
Seemed kind of late to be adding to the other threads, so I thought I'd start a new one with my random thoughts about the GPF - I just saw it on CBC this weekend.

First - two entries in Worst Costume EVER: Tatiana Navka's OD "dress" - it wasn't even Vegas showgirl, it was Vegas stripper. The tuft of blue feathers on her ***, the teeny, tiny rest of it in blue and brown leapard spots - I don't know that I've ever seen anything so hideous in my life. I almost didn't watch the dance I was so distracted by the sheer awfulness of what I suppose I must generously call her "skating dress."
In the men's field there was Lambiel once again in that atrocious white and orange zebra-striped monstrosity. Get a new costume man!

Onto the actual skating.....
Mens: The short programs were a joy to behold. Oda, Takahashi, Buttle and Lambiel all had great ones, though I have to say, Oda's choreography is the first I've seen from David Wilson that I actively dislike. Both his short and long programs weren't very good. They made him look very young, for starters, and he didn't seem comfortable with the slightly comedic intent. Now Browning could have pulled that off, but not the just-out-of-juniors Oda. He doesn't have much of an artistic connection with the music yet, but that will probably come with time.
Takahashi I was very impressed with. His artistry shone. The commentators said it was obvious he really enjoyed skating to his SP music, and I have to agree. He was totally free out there. Also a wonderful job in the long.
Having read some of the comments on the threads here before seeing the event, I expected Buttle's long to be a disaster, but in actuality it wasn't nearly as bad as I was led to believe. Sure, he had a couple of blips on the jump landings, but he fully rotated all of them and had two triple axels - I know I read a comment somewhere that he didn't have any??? and I can't understand it. He stepped out of his second one, but his first was textbook, in combination with a slightly flawed triple toe. I don't think any of the other men even attempted the triple axel-triple combination. No quad, but then, several of the others fell on their attempts. I would have liked to see a cleaner skate, but in no way was it a total failure, and I would argue with anybody who said he was held up unfairly by the judges here.
Lambiel was great with the two quads, however I didn't like his program as much as I did earlier in the season when I saw it with less successful jumps. I'm not quite sure why....does anybody know if he's taken some of the choreography out?

Ice Dance:
Navka/Kostamorov looked smoother than earlier in the season, and it's not the worst FD I've ever seen, but not terribly memorable IMO. No doubt, however, this will be good enough to win them gold at the Olympics. Their OD music - also used by G&G (I think it was them) always reminds me of Torvill and Dean's masterpiece OD in Lillehammer - it's the only time I think I've ever really seen any ice dance team capture any kind of credible latin feel on skates. Needless to say, both teams' OD's suffer by comparasin.

I preferred G&G's FD from last season. I'm sitting her now typing a day later and I can't say I remember much about their program. Not a good sign.

D&L - these guys were fabulous (yes, I'm a proud Canadian fan, if you couldn't tell) So happy they're having a great season, and so happy to be genuinely interested in their material - I haven't always been in the past. I like both the OD and their FD is a signature piece for them. A few more miles on these and they'll really be challenging.
One beef - learn how to twizzle already. It's a required element and they do it comparatively badly. They're slow, tentative and often out of synch. I find it the one glaring area where a number of other teams have a obvious advantage over them.

Was really disappointed CBC didn't show Del&S. I loved this team - my faves from the Worlds last year - and I wanted to see their new material. I understand it wasn't a great skate for them, but I still would have been interested to see the dances themselves.

Pairs:
This is by far the discipline I'm least interested in these days. The programs almost all look like a series of disconnected elements with the skaters painting by numbers. None of the top teams are anything special. When Tot/M most likely win the Olympic gold, it'll be one of the most mediocre wins in a long while. They're kind of the best of a boring lot. In their favour, they are smooth, polished, and actually manage to look like a pair on the ice and have some kind of chemistry. Try as I might, though, I just can't love them.
Then there's P&T. I was shocked, shocked I tell you to actually find this team exciting in the SP. I have never found this team exciting. Ever. Not even when they won worlds. But for some reason, their short was rather inspired. It was like they were skating to music. And were excited. Unfortunately all that had left the building by the time they did their long to a dreadful piece of musak that did nothing for them.
Zhang and Zhang looked robotic as always. This team has no chemistry with each other and none with their music or the audience. They have a series of impressive tricks as opposed to choreography. They could very well be on the podium in Turin. Sigh.
S&S - the German pair. Hmmmm. Slightly interesting. They have potential. I don't think they're quite there yet, but they can get there.
O&S - I think this team has actually devolved. They seem worse now than when I first saw them and thought they had potential. Their programs are dreadful - this year and last - and I'm sure that doesn't help them. But for all their classic Russian style, they have almost zero connection with any music I've seen them skate to. This team is stagnating and need an overhaul.

Ladies:
Yeah, Asada was impressive - but IMO overrated. She still looks like a little girl competing with women. I know some don't agree, but seeing her at the GPF just reinforced this view for me. Slutskaya (and I'm not a fan) just looked miles ahead of her, even with the flaws in her skate, on overall presentation. As did pretty much the rest of the field, even Nakano and Ando.
I wasn't terribly impressed by the ladies competition. Not many of the skates really interested me.

Yes, for once I felt that someone was thinking the same way I was. Mao Asada, while I think she is extrardinarily mature, still is not as polished. Those simulated snowflakes with her hands while she is doing a spiral of some sorts,kind of an attitude, is laughable. She just does not have the grace. However, and it is a big however, Irina still does not have the polish that smoothness of this new generation, and I'm talking about even the relative long-shots such as Miki from what I have read, gets a lot of hits on her website and not just from skating enthusiasts, either. Now with Kwan trying desperately to hang on to the last threads of notoriety and shamless self-promotion getting in the way, it is anybody's game.
 
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