Will Cohen and Kwan Get Byes IF

Joesitz (RIP) · Jan 4, 2006

they finish 5th and 6th at the US Nationals?

There are at least 4 or 5 skaters who, if they skate their best could beat a faltering Cohen and Kwan.

Joe

skatergirlaj · Jan 4, 2006

I should hope not.

millie · Jan 4, 2006

If Kwan and Cohen get byes, I don't think it's fair. The pick should be from the top 3 ladies. If they aren't good enought to make it at Nationals why send them to Worlds. I think that they should send their best, if they can't make it at Nationals, for sure they will not make it at Worlds with the caliber of skaters that will represent other countries.

cmego500 · Jan 4, 2006

I see it this way, Both Kwan and Cohen are locks to make it to the olympics no matter what. They are at a level that none of the other US ladies can touch them and the USFSA knows that without both Kwan and Cohen, they will not get an olympic medal.

attyfan · Jan 4, 2006

A lot might depend upon the margin of victory. If Michelle and/or Sasha miss the podium by 10 points, they shouldn't get a bye to Olys; if they miss it by two, then sending them and the third place finisher to the 4CCs for a "skate-off" might be worthwhile. (OTOH, the USFSA might be tempted to "fix" the Nats results because forcing Sasha, Michelle and a third into a skate off for one Olys spot might boost the ratings for 4CCs.)

If, however, Michelle (or Sasha) can't compete at Nats due to injury, then they should get a "bye" if they will be healthy by Olys, as under the USFSA rules, the Nats results are disregarded, no one (but Alissa) got into the GPF) and both Michelle's 4th place and Sasha's silver at 2005 Worlds trump anything that any of the other skaters did.

MidnightNess · Jan 4, 2006

You can argue whether or not it's fair but I think regardless of results--unless they're severely injured, both kwan and cohen would get byes. Right now, who else has a chance of bringing home an Olympic medal? There's no need to mention Kwan's past results and with Cohen, she's been a two time World Silver medalist with her programs receiving good feedback this season. We can argue for Czisny's great performances at the GP but let's not forget, she has no GPF medal, no World medal, and no National medal. Same goes for any of the other skaters vying for a spot and unfortunately, past results do play a factor. Just my two cents.

Sylvia · Jan 4, 2006

attyfan said:
If, however, Michelle (or Sasha) can't compete at Nats due to injury, then they should get a "bye" if they will be healthy by Olys, as under the USFSA rules, the Nats results are disregarded, no one (but Alissa) got into the GPF) and both Michelle's 4th place and Sasha's silver at 2005 Worlds trump anything that any of the other skaters did.

Yes, it's all spelled out in detail in the USFS' Olympic Winter Games selection procedures document as of 12/9/05 at:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/olympicprocedures.pdf

Sk8n Mama · Jan 4, 2006

Kwan and Cohen will be the top two no matter how they skate.

Frau Muller · Jan 4, 2006

Joe, if Cohen &/or Kwan miss the event due to illness or whatever, they'll get 'byes.'

If Cohen & Kwan ARE present & if they do not skate their best, they will be propped-up BIG TIME through the second mark to ENSURE their appearances in Torino.

The sponsors & the networks -- who benefit from happy sponsors who pay more for ads in events with Cohen & Kwan -- will have it no other way. USFigureSkating depends on network & sponsor monies$$$$. Get it? Avery Brundage may have been an idealistic dinosaur but he had it right -- once commercialism sinks its paws into Olympic sports, absolute-impartiality (fairness) ceases to exist.

millie · Jan 4, 2006

Frau Muller said:
Joe, if Cohen &/or Kwan miss the event due to illness or whatever, they'll get 'byes.'

If Cohen & Kwan ARE present & if they do not skate their best, they will be propped-up BIG TIME through the second mark to ENSURE their appearances in Torino.

The sponsors & the networks -- who benefit from happy sponsors who pay more for ads in events with Cohen & Kwan -- will have it no other way. USFigureSkating depends on network & sponsor monies$$$$. Get it? Avery Brundage may have been an idealistic dinosaur but he had it right -- once commercialism sinks its paws into Olympic sports, absolute-impartiality (fairness) ceases to exist.

If that is the case, talk about unfair judging. If that is the case, what was the purpose of the New Judging system, for skaters to get the marks that they deserve. Talk about judging scandels if that happens.

Frau Muller · Jan 4, 2006

Just my point, millie. It is really sad. The new system is great in one respect (the meticulous adding-up of tech scores), as well as flawed (ye-olde 'Artistic Impression' fudging-opportunity-mark replaced by the five 'Presentation' marks.....now given anonymously, which is even worse!). Grrrrr.....

Joesitz (RIP) · Jan 4, 2006

Sylvia said:
Yes, it's all spelled out in detail in the USFS' Olympic Winter Games selection procedures document as of 12/9/05 at:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/olympicprocedures.pdf

Interesting document, Sylvia. - If I am reading correctly, the USFS (no more A at the end, I presume) nominates the team from an assortment of results of competitions not the least of which is the US Nats. This list of 3 for each discipline is then submitted to the USOC for establishing the US teams for the Olympics. (The IOC does not question any submission by a government OC.)

If I am not correct so far, please let me know.

It seems to me that the submission of 3 names of each discipline by the USFS is basically all that is needed. The USOC rubber stamps the USFS and the IOC rubber stamps the USOC.

The criteria for the USFS to select the teams is moot. Given the example I gave as topic of this thread, the selection of Sasha and Michelle could be given based on past performances and the term bye doesn't even have to be used. Am I correct?

Joe

Frau Muller · Jan 4, 2006

Joesitz said:
The criteria for the USFS to select the teams is moot. Given the example I gave as topic of this thread, the selection of Sasha and Michelle could be given based on past performances and the term bye doesn't even have to be used. Am I correct?

Joe

I'll let Sylvia answer your q. about the term 'bye,' Joe. My point: If "the naming" is to happen (which is what's done, according to the rules), & we know that Michele & Sasha are the likely ones to be named, then isn't it in the USFS & networks/advertisers' best interest to NOT put a not-fully-fit Michele (or Sasha) on display in St. Louis? If we know that Michele & Sasha will be on the team no matter what, then I agree that they should not be paraded on the ice to show their weak state. As an American, I don't want the pre-Olympics p.r. to be negative for 'my' ladies.

millie · Jan 4, 2006

Back to fairness and rules, Here's one skater Mao who has skated all year and proven that she can do it and can't go to Olympics and another skater who hasn't skated all year and can probably can get a bye to the Olympics. Don't take this the wrong way, blame it on the rules. The rules are good for some and bad for others.

slutskayafan21 · Jan 4, 2006

First of all, it is hard to see even on their bad days them not being worthy of higher than that due to the strength of their overall skating. However in the event they were so flawed they merited such places, I gaurantee the judges would find ways to inflate their scores for PCS or other subjective areas that much more to keep them in the top 3 and not put the USFSA in a pickle, particularly since atleast one of Csizny or Meissner will probably not do a flawless competition anyway.

FreeKatie · Jan 5, 2006

If Plushenko finished 4th at Russian Nationals on a bad day, do you think they would leave him off the Olympic team? I think not. That would be pretty stupid (pardon my bluntness). The same applies for US Nationals.

Eeyora · Jan 5, 2006

What would the USFSA do if Sasha finished 5th or sixth with Michelle withdrawn and Amber won!

Mathman · Jan 5, 2006

Then Amber :love:

would go and try to beat Irina for the gold medal! :rock:

alain707 · Jan 7, 2006

Last year Irina won the European Champs with 3 triples.
If Sasha or Michelle (well not her anymore) had one or two bad skates at Nationals, I have no doubt that the outcome will enable them to be on the olympic team without overpassing some skaters ahead of them. Just my guess about how figure skating is run and judged ... worldwide.

elingrace4eva · Jan 7, 2006

I have a question. All these people said it wouldn't be fair for Kwan to get a bye if she faltered at Nationals and got 5th or 6th. And yet it's fair for her to get a bye if she withdraws and doesn't compete at all? That doesn't seem right to me...

Will Cohen and Kwan Get Byes IF

Joesitz (RIP)

skatergirlaj

millie

cmego500

attyfan

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MidnightNess

Sylvia

Sk8n Mama

Frau Muller

millie

Frau Muller

Joesitz (RIP)

Frau Muller

millie

slutskayafan21

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FreeKatie

Eeyora

Mathman

alain707

elingrace4eva

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