Michelle's Proof-of-Recovery Skate, Jan 16

Frau Muller · Jan 6, 2006

Kwanford Wife said:
...But I just cannot wrap my head around the phenom of tearing one skater down to build up another skaters...

Neither can I, Kwanford Wife. I hope that nobody infers that I'm bashing anyone for the sake of bashing. My thoughts are about systems in general & a desire for fairness. I cheered each & every one of these ladies, in their own great moments (Michele, Irina, Sasha, Mao, etc, etc.).

Kwanford Wife · Jan 6, 2006

Frau Muller said:
Neither can I, Kwanford Wife. I hope that nobody infers that I'm bashing anyone for the sake of bashing. My thoughts are about systems in general & a desire for fairness. I cheered each & every one of these ladies, in their own great moments (Michele, Irina, Sasha, Mao, etc, etc.).

But then, you're a grown up... :laugh:

Mathman · Jan 6, 2006

To me, this whole bye thing is purely a medical decision, without any devious subplots. If Michelle is able to skate at 90% or so (the prospects for this are dim, IMHO, but I'm not a doctor), then she is a better medal prospect than whoever they might send in her place.

If not, then no one -- certainly not Michelle herself, not her corporate sponsors, not USFS, not NBC TV -- can gain anything from pushing her out on the ice in a wheelchair (as they more or less did at Marshall's).

MM

shadymc · Jan 6, 2006

True about the other ladies' dreams, but what about the dreams of the third place finisher of Russian nationals? Irina's going on a bye too, and her health is always a question. What about the third place finisher at US Nationals dance competition? We already know how they feel about the politics for B & A. What about Nakano, who has bested Ando all season long and Japanese nationals to boot?

It comes down to the fact that US nationals is not the Olympic trials. It is only one determining factor in who goes to the Olympics and Michelle's 4th place at worlds is going to hold her in good stead. If, and it's a big "if", Michelle is healthy she should place above the US third lady at the Olympics. The third place finisher would likely go to worlds, as Michelle did not petition for that.

Doggygirl · Jan 6, 2006

Mathman said:
To me, this whole bye thing is purely a medical decision, without any devious subplots. If Michelle is able to skate at 90% or so (the prospects for this are dim, IMHO, but I'm not a doctor), then she is a better medal prospect than whoever they might send in her place.

If not, then no one -- certainly not Michelle herself, not her corporate sponsors, not USFS, not NBC TV -- can gain anything from pushing her out on the ice in a wheelchair (as they more or less did at Marshall's).

MM

ITA with all of that. It's the job of the USFSA to pick the best team. If Michelle and her team believe there is a reasonable possibility that she can skate better than the 3rd place finisher at Nats (assuming the USFSA goes with #2 for the team and #3 for the third or alternate spot) then they IMO, should put MK on the team. I'm certain that there will be more discussion on MK's recover progress on January 30 before the team names are submitted.

Ultimately, I believe the USFSA will choose 4 people (inc. alternate) who they believe can do the best for Team USA. As someone else mentioned, 4 healthy folks (and I agree with MM that a 90% MK would most likely be a better choice than a 100% Alissa, Kimmie, etc.) are important because an injury to an athlete can happen any time.

While nobody has a crystal ball, and anything can happen at any time, I believe MK has the integrity to make the best possible decision for her, and for the team by 1/30.

As far as the sponsors go, Michelle is certainly the most well known current skater in the US, and probably the world. Her face and name on posters, in commercials, etc. will still appeal to the broad, more general Oly audience in the US. I'm also certain that these companies understand the risk of injury to any athlete who they contract with for endorsements. So I would imagine there is a well established plan "B" and maybe "C" not only for MK, but for any athletes who are featured in the promo stuff.

If MK is not able to compete, but can ride on a plane, I would fully expect to see her during the TV coverage of the games. So I suspect Michelle will contribute to the games whether as a competitor, or in some capacity.

I am still sad that we won't get to see her at Nats.

Linny · Jan 6, 2006

all about the medals?

The Olys is all about the medals? Nothing else? Please, tell that to the athletes who don't have a snowball's chance of winning a medal. You know who they are. Get up rilly rilly early and meet them at the ice rink where they are practicing their hearts out in hopes of doing their personal best at the Olys and having the chance to tell their grandchildren that they were there.

It is an honor to be at the Olys regardless of your placing.

Katt Witt won two Oly golds... but I remember her appearing once again in the Olys when there was not a snowball's chance of a medal. Her performance was magical. Elaine Zayak is another skater who appeared in a world class competition (was it Worlds? Nationals?) when she was past her prime and didn't really have a snowball's chance... but she made the final flight I think and it was such a treat to see her again.

So, regardless of the USFSA's stated goal of sending the team with the best chance for medals, realistically, they've got to consider the skates on the ice at Nationals, consider the request for a bye and, hopefully, send the skaters who best represent the USFSA. I'm soooo glad that *I* don't have to choose!

The medal chances aren't the entire picture.

Linny

Frau Muller · Jan 6, 2006

Linny said:
The medal chances aren't the entire picture.

Linny

Hmmm...maybe not for the Olympics but they sure-as-heck count at Worlds, where final placement of the skaters determines each country's berths at the next year's Worlds (or Olympics, if there's an Olympics the following year).

jenaj · Jan 6, 2006

The only issue should be who is most likely to do the best at the Olympics for the US team. That person is clearly Kwan, if she has recovered from her injury. I think the officials have to take her and her doctor's word for it if she says she will be ready. She is a class act who has never given anyone any reason to doubt her sincerity. If, by the last day for substituting an alternate, she can't skate, that would be another issue. But I do think the USFA should trust Michelle on this one and believe her if she says she will drop out if she isn't 100%.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jan 6, 2006

The situation is such that the US Team has to decide which group of 3 skaters should go to the Olys. In the past in order to bump Michelle from the 94 Olys team, Nancy had to prove she was able to skate up to par. I believe Nancy did that and Michelle had to be left off the team.

If Michlle can not prove that she is up to par, then whoever is the 3rd place finisher of the US Nats will be a part of the team. This, of course, presumes Sasha Cohen will be among the top 3 at US Nats. Otherwise............

Joe

Misplaced Gymnast · Jan 6, 2006

Enero said:
I'm not so sure a "proof skate" by Kwan would be televised. The only reason why Nancy's was televised was because of the "whack," which was a huge story not only in sports news but regular news. This is not the case with Kwan. She's asking for a bye and perhaps having to do a "proof skate" because she was injured due to practicing, which is not National/Regular news.

I think if Kwan does have to skate to prove she can compete in Turin it'll be done privately with the necessary "judges" there, and maybe with limited media. But I don't think it'll be televised.

Without having yet read all 8 pages of this thread, why is this scenario ickily reminding me of the 1991 & 1992 closed-door, "second" Trials for the World/Olympic gymnastics teams? :disagree: And why on God's green earth would they have a doctor only OK her "fitness" but not require a test skate? Something smells.

I think they're gonna keep Kwan on the team till the last possible second for advertising/ratings/$$$ purposes whether she can skate or not. I just hope they can put in an alternate after that January 30 date.

Mathman · Jan 6, 2006

Just a general comment. I think we deserve to give ourselves a gold star for carrying out a civil discussion on these threads. There is hardly any Michelle bashing and, conversely, hardly any bashing of posters offering critical analysis, either.

Hooray for us. :clap:

MM

kemisha · Jan 6, 2006

i don't think it should be televised, but i think she should have to demonstrate olympic caliber elite skating in order to be named to the olympic team. the michelle that won the fourth place at worlds may have a position to trump everyone minus sasha, but honestly, she's battling hip, groin, practise time, and cop. she needs to be better than the 3rd best skater from nationals within a month.

Eeyora · Jan 7, 2006

Doggygirl said:
If MK is not able to compete, but can ride on a plane, I would fully expect to see her during the TV coverage of the games. So I suspect Michelle will contribute to the games whether as a competitor, or in some capacity.

I am still sad that we won't get to see her at Nats.

I would much rather hear Michelle commentate even if her speech is not perfect than Bezic of Hamilton any day especially Bezic.

attyfan · Jan 7, 2006

Joesitz said:
The situation is such that the US Team has to decide which group of 3 skaters should go to the Olys. In the past in order to bump Michelle from the 94 Olys team, Nancy had to prove she was able to skate up to par. I believe Nancy did that and Michelle had to be left off the team.

Joe

It seems to be the procedure to name the team first, and have the tests later IIRC, Nancy was named to the team first, and she had the test skate later -- but the test skate was in plenty of time to replace her with the alternate, should that be necessary. As recently as 2000, Sasha was named to the World team, even though she couldn't go unless she medaled at Jr Worlds -- but she was named, and only after Juniors was she "replaced" by the "first alternate". So, if the USFSA decides to grant her petition on the 14th, they do so (or at least they should do so) on the proviso that she pass a test skate, but apparently, no test skate is required to be named.

mzheng · Jan 7, 2006

attyfan said:
It seems to be the procedure to name the team first, and have the tests later IIRC, Nancy was named to the team first, and she had the test skate later -- but the test skate was in plenty of time to replace her with the alternate, should that be necessary. As recently as 2000, Sasha was named to the World team, even though she couldn't go unless she medaled at Jr Worlds -- but she was named, and only after Juniors was she "replaced" by the "first alternate". So, if the USFSA decides to grant her petition on the 14th, they do so (or at least they should do so) on the proviso that she pass a test skate, but apparently, no test skate is required to be named.

Yeah I read somewhere an article (too many of them can't remember, but intead of we were argueing here fair or no fair, will be a test or no test) I brief what I read from those articles.

Kwan said in her press conference that she full aware if USFS grant her a 'bye' she will be monitored by ppl commitee send.

An USFS spoken woman said, the monitor procedure mostly will be like what they done to Nancy. A three ppl group 2 coach/judge and 1 athelete was sent out to Nancy's rink observe her run through her programs (SP, LP). The went there 3 times. Then they reported back to the commitee. Late Nancy won silver by delivering a performance many said could win gold at 1994 Olympics. The woman sounded pretty satisfied with what they did to Nancy. But she said in Todd's case they only send one person to make sure he was ready. Todd late finish 10th(?) in that Olympics. She was not satisfied with what they did with Todd.

Sounds like they will go through Nancy's routine if they grant Kwan a bye.

Jaana · Jan 7, 2006

Joesitz said:
Michelle also came in second in her LP at Dortmund to Shizuka and placed 3rd over all after being 6th in Q Round.

Joe

In Dortmund Kwan was 3rd after QR, 4th in SP and 2nd in LP:

http://www.isufs.org/results/wc2004/cat002rs.htm

In Moscow Worlds she was 5th after QR, and 3rd both in SP and LP:

http://www.isufs.org/results/wc2005/CAT002RS.HTM

Mathman · Jan 7, 2006

But still, I think Joe is right. In Dortmund, in the qualifying round Michelle was 3rd in her qualifying group. This put her tied for 5th-6th overall with Julia Sebestyen, who finished 3rd in the other qualifying group.

(Michelle's fourth place finish in the SP reflected the time deduction.)

In Moscow, Michelle was 5th in her qualifying group, but with 55.20 points still finished ahead of everyone in the other qualifying group except Sasha (56.64), for 6th place overall going into the short program.

MM

Joesitz (RIP) · Jan 7, 2006

Jaana said:
In Dortmund Kwan was 3rd after QR, 4th in SP and 2nd in LP:

Michelle was tied with Julia Sebestyen for third which made both of them 5th and 6th place.

Shiz and Sasha were tied for first

Miki and Elena were tied for 2nd

Joe

sk8fanconvert · Jan 8, 2006

Kwanford Wife said:
I'm sorry, but I don't understand how supposed skating fans can get off on Kwan's injury.

I'm perplexed by your and several others' claims that people are rejoicing that MK is injured and won't be at nationals. I haven't seen that in any posts here. I think many feel that USFSA will grant her a bye whether she's truly ready to skate or not, based on her long history (or marketability, etc), which many feel is not an appropriate standard. When I hear 'supposed skating fans,' I'm disappointed. It sounds very much like people questioning each others' patriotism!

I'll be at nationals, and I'm disappointed MK won't be there. Even when not her best, she can be amazing. I'm sure if she were healthy enough to skate, she'd make the team, based on her merit, not a gift. But getting a bye is different. I think she could get a bye from USFSA even if she couldn't land one triple. I don't trust USFSA. I think that'd be taking a big risk for the team, and be kinda unfair to the other skaters.

I also worry that MK might not see the picture clearly, that she's surrounded by yes-people, who depend on her Olympic hopes even more than she does herself. But really, I think MathMan has it right when he speculated that she is applying to keep her options open, and will pull out if she can't get the programs together in time for the final team deadline. I'm counting on MK's character (not USFSA's credibililty)- she will either drop off the team or show us at the Olys that she can do it. We'll find out in the next couple of weeks, won't we, then we can spend a week here telling each other, "I told you so!" Won't that be fun.

Mathman · Jan 8, 2006

sk8fanconvert said:
I also worry that MK might not see the picture clearly, that she's surrounded by yes-people, who depend on her Olympic hopes even more than she does herself.

Bravo. To me, that is the whole thing in a nutshell. At the end of the day, however, I do trust Michelle to keep her head on her shoulders and make a rational decision based on what is best both for the sport and for her own legacy.

MM

Michelle's Proof-of-Recovery Skate, Jan 16

Frau Muller

Kwanford Wife

Mathman

shadymc

Doggygirl

Linny

Frau Muller

jenaj

Joesitz (RIP)

Misplaced Gymnast

Mathman

kemisha

Eeyora

attyfan

Custom Title

mzheng

Jaana

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

sk8fanconvert

Mathman

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