Michelle's Proof-of-Recovery Skate, Jan 16
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Back in 1994, Nancy Kerrigan was named to the Olympic team following the attack by Tonya Harding's gang of thugs. However, the USFSA had a strict proviso that Nancy had to skate before a panel of USFSA officials & judges and prove that she was physically recovered and able to perform at championship level. This skate took place just a week or so before the Olympics, so it happened a few weeks after Nationals, not one week after Nationals, as is the case with Michelle Kwan.
As we all remember, Kerrigan became a HUGE media star following Nationals, and she was on the cover of numerous magazines, and the topic of many televised news reports. How bizarre it was to follow this saga on NBC news on a nightly basis! Anyway, despite Kerrigan's celebrity status, had she been unable to skate well before that panel, she would have been replaced by Michelle Kwan, who had won the silver medal at Nationals, as the second member of the Olympic skating team. Fortunately, Nancy recovered beautifully, and she skated a strong program & was sent to Lillehammer.
It would be sad if Michelle isn't able to skate a strong program on the 16th. I am sure this skate will be filmed, and it will be critiqued. If Michelle really skates badly but is still awarded a bye, then I think that the bronze medal winner, assuming that's the skater who would be bumped off the team, would have a justifiable case. But then, how could anybody make a case against sending Michelle Kwan to the Olympics? :disapp:
As we all remember, Kerrigan became a HUGE media star following Nationals, and she was on the cover of numerous magazines, and the topic of many televised news reports. How bizarre it was to follow this saga on NBC news on a nightly basis! Anyway, despite Kerrigan's celebrity status, had she been unable to skate well before that panel, she would have been replaced by Michelle Kwan, who had won the silver medal at Nationals, as the second member of the Olympic skating team. Fortunately, Nancy recovered beautifully, and she skated a strong program & was sent to Lillehammer.
It would be sad if Michelle isn't able to skate a strong program on the 16th. I am sure this skate will be filmed, and it will be critiqued. If Michelle really skates badly but is still awarded a bye, then I think that the bronze medal winner, assuming that's the skater who would be bumped off the team, would have a justifiable case. But then, how could anybody make a case against sending Michelle Kwan to the Olympics? :disapp:
I was confused by SkateFan4Life post as well. But 2nd thought he/she might mean Feb 16th? which is one week before Ladie's SP?flowjo35 said:
My understanding according to what I read from an article, what they did in Nancy condition was conditional name her first, then following up with monitoring her progress. Not once, but three times, not one person(as the case of Todd) but three persons was send over to observe Nancy's run through her programs......thus my guess is committee could grant her a 'bye' at Jan. 16th based on the USFS doctor examine and provide opinion that by time Olympics around Kwan will be physically recovered from the injuries. At the time they might name altnatives in place in case Kwan is not ready. Afterwards the committee will send out 3 ppl teams to monitor Kwan just like they did to Nancy.
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Piel said:Everybody, all together.......................
Remember Dan Jansen?
Very good! I was thinking the same the other day: "I hope that Michele may be able to pull-off a 'Dan Jansen'!"
realistic51 said:
Well if she's injured and can't compete in Nationals (to earn her spot), how is she better than a skater who competes and skates great to win 3rd?
If Michelle gets put onthe team and winds up skating like crap and finishing 10th, will you still be singing the same song? Might as well send one of the younger girls who are capable of pulling off the upset.
As for Irina, how can you even compare Irina and Michelle in this regard? Irina has competed this whole season and did very well. Irina is the defending World Champion and Irina has not lost training time to injury this season. Michelle has barely competed the past 3 years and did not skate well at all at last year's worlds (sugarcoat her results all that you wish, she skated like garbage and only b/c of her past reputation was she given the benefit of the doubt, any other skater , ie Rochette, would have been buried in the pack after such a crappy QR skate). Irina has already proven herself in competition this year. Michelle hasn't.
I also think that a lot of folks are delusional in thinking that a competitor can just waltz into the Olympics after being out of competition for a few years and win the whole thing. I know this runs counter to many otherworldly beliefs about Michelle but no one has ever done this and Michelle isn't going to do it either. She can receive tons of feedback on her program , but its not the same as getting the program in front of judges. Her competitive skills (and reputation) are getting rusty with every competition that she misses.
soogar said:
First, how do you know someone will skate great to win 3rd? Remember the men's event in Dallas?
Second, why would it be so terrible if Michelle finishes 10th, when there is no reason to believe that any of the younger girls will do any better? Your remarks about Worlds and the idea that the younger girls are more capable than Michelle of pulling off an upset are mutually exclusive -- if, in fact, the judges are still willing to "hold up Michelle", she is a lot more likely to do better than the young ones.
Finally, you forgot that Irina got a bye to go to Worlds in /04, when she also was out of the entire year. After a test skate, the Russian federation simply determined that, even when sick, Irina is one of their best. Similarly, if it appears that, after a test skate, Michelle is still one of America's best, she should go.
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soogar said:
FYI, I seriously doubt that ANY of our younger skaters would finish higher than 10th. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Plus I don't believe in the "otherworldiness" of Kwan. I believe that Kwan knows herself, knows her body, has doctors and a team surrounding her and will make whatever decision SHE and her TEAM deem appropriate for her. Not what YOU think is right. Not what I think is right, but what is right for Kwan. That should be decided by Kwan and her team.
I haven't sugarcoated anything, soogar, nor did I suggest anything about her skating at 2005 Worlds in my post. It's not my decision to make. I, however, think Kwan stands a far greater chance than any younger skater that we have of finishing in the top 10. NOTE: I did not say medaling although I'd actually love to see her finally win gold or any other color medal.
And if she skates like crap and finishes 10th, I'll still be singing the same song because I don't have any other songs to sing right now. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
I actually think COP is a friend to Michelle in this moment because other than Sasha and Irina no one else is really over her in terms of accross the board skill. I think decision will be simple. Have Michelle skate, mock COP score it and see where it falls. And unfortunately if its close to #3 I think she'll have the benefit of the doubt since there will be practice time between the end of Jan and the end of Feb (Sp is on the 21st, right?).
Plus you can pull an athlete but you can't upgrade one. And in reference to '92, a lot of people thought they should have pulled Wylie for Mitchell which of course would have been a big mistake. Eldredge also aggravated his back during his flight to Europe.
Plus you can pull an athlete but you can't upgrade one. And in reference to '92, a lot of people thought they should have pulled Wylie for Mitchell which of course would have been a big mistake. Eldredge also aggravated his back during his flight to Europe.
Michelle
I understand why some posters think Michelle should not get a "bye." They do have a legitimate argument. But I think if she is able to compete, she is one of the two best skaters America has right now, and by virtue of that, she deserves to go if you want to send your best team. If she is unable to compete, that is a different story. I do believe she will do as she has stated, and take herself off the team if she is unable to compete at a truly competitive level. I know some of you think that her past skating history should have no bearing on whether she gets a "bye" or not. I don't agree. I think it is really one of the most compelling reasons regardless of whether the committee considers that or not. She has been American figure skating for the past decade. She has accounted for subsantial revenue and attendance. It shouldn't be discounted. Her impact on the sport is already legendary and shouldn't be discounted. Last but not least, she has stayed in the sport ostensibly just so she could compete at another Olympics. It is one of the great stories of this Olympics already. It would also be the right thing to do because historically exceptions have been made for exactly the same reason-physical injury. Is it fair to the third place finisher at Nationals? Yes, because if Michelle was competing at Nationals, they wouldn't even have made third place in all likelyhood.
I understand why some posters think Michelle should not get a "bye." They do have a legitimate argument. But I think if she is able to compete, she is one of the two best skaters America has right now, and by virtue of that, she deserves to go if you want to send your best team. If she is unable to compete, that is a different story. I do believe she will do as she has stated, and take herself off the team if she is unable to compete at a truly competitive level. I know some of you think that her past skating history should have no bearing on whether she gets a "bye" or not. I don't agree. I think it is really one of the most compelling reasons regardless of whether the committee considers that or not. She has been American figure skating for the past decade. She has accounted for subsantial revenue and attendance. It shouldn't be discounted. Her impact on the sport is already legendary and shouldn't be discounted. Last but not least, she has stayed in the sport ostensibly just so she could compete at another Olympics. It is one of the great stories of this Olympics already. It would also be the right thing to do because historically exceptions have been made for exactly the same reason-physical injury. Is it fair to the third place finisher at Nationals? Yes, because if Michelle was competing at Nationals, they wouldn't even have made third place in all likelyhood.
Red Dog said:
But it's also not Michelle's fault that Nancy was injured and unable to compete at Nationals 1994, yet it was Michelle who was ripped of the chance of competing at Olympics that year even though she finished 2nd place. Some people are saying it will be unfair to the 3rd place skater should Michelle be granted the bye, but shouldn't Michelle have had more reason to feel shafted in 1994 since she had more rightful claim to compete in 1994's Olympics than this year's 3rd place skater? RD, I know you frequent FSU as well, have you read Dilng's opinion on this matter? That was a brilliant post and IMO a very objective one. We all know Dilng's opinion on Michelle, so I was really surprised to read it and was very touched by it.
fscric said:
I don't know why people keep bringing up 1994. Michelle has gone to two Olympics since then (with her standings getting worse at each go). Don't you think that makes up for her not going to the Olympics in 1994? Or since Michelle was left off the team one time, she should be entitled to go to as many Olympics as possible? With that mentality, USFS should have put NNN on the World team when she was age eligible on the basis of her silver medal that she won when she was 13. Besides, Nancy was clubbed in the leg. In addition, Nancy had been skating well all season long. Now if Nancy was out for the entire season and skipped Nationals due to a training injury, I don't think the USFSA would have given her a bye b/c of the way she had performed at the previous worlds. However that whole incident was a freak show and I don't understand why people are pulling at straws to make it similar to Michelle's situation.
Since the ladies event hasn't occurred yet, why are so many people doubting that the third place finisher will have a lights out skate. Nationals (and Olympic qualifying) tends to bring out the best in people. If the third place girl skates lights out and lands a 3-3 or two with 6-7 triples in total, should that skater be left off the team for a skater who has not demonstrated in the past few seasons that she has a 3-3 and has been doing fewer triples as the years wear on?
Though some others suggested that a skate off at 4Cs would be fairer. Maybe the USFS should make MIchelle skate off at 4Cs to see how neutral judges will assess her under COP and if she can handle the pressure of competing under COP. The best girl out of the two will go.
I will also add that it is "easy" to maintain Michelle's stature as one of the best US skaters when she doesn't put herself out there to be judged. When she doesn't compete, she doesn't risk losing to the Maos and the Sashas (in addition to the Irinas) that are competing in the GP. Heck, Alissa might have been able to beat Michelle with the performances she had at the GP.
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soogar said:
First, that Nancy was clubbed in the leg wan't Michelle's fault. The fact remains that, both now and in '94, the skater who gets bumped had nothing to do with the cause of the injury.
Second, to say that "Nancy had been skating well all season long" is misleading. The GP series as we know it today (two events, plus maybe a final) did not exist. Nancy had done precisely one ISU event between her disaster at Worlds and the whack. Admittedly, this is one more than Michelle has done, but still doing one event is a far cry from "skating well all season long."
Finally, Nats and Olys qualifiers do not always bring out the best. Neither Tara nor Sarah skated their best at Nats -- Sarah's was comparatively poor.
I somehow wonder if the bronze medalist will be all that shattered. Depends, I suppose on whether she sees herself as the next Mark Mitchell -- who got bumped so Todd could go to '92 Olys, when he could not compete at Nats due to a training injury, and, who never got another chance -- or if she sees herself as the next Michelle Kwan.
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soogar said:
Since the rules are in place and allow ANY skater to ask for a medical bye, I don't understand why you are so against giving Kwan the bye. We can set aside the Kerrigan issue because I do agree that it's different circumstances from Kwan's. However an injury is an injury despite the circumstances.
But let's look at it this way: Outside of Kwan and Cohen, very few of our younger skaters have had the international experience to draw on. While Alissa did very well at SA and SC, one silver, one gold, the GPF was another scenario. She gained experience by competing there and it will serve her well as she continues to improve. Kimmie was dismal during the GP Series this year, so I don't see that a "lights out" skate at Nationals buys her a seat at the Olympics unless she wins.
And, soogar, one thing I think you ARE forgetting. If Kwan gets the "bye" (which I think she should, btw) and Cohen is National Champion, there is still a 3rd spot left to fill. So one of our up-and-coming younger ladies WILL get a chance to skate at the Olympics. And more than likely, the 3rd place finisher, as Kwan before, will be named an alternate to these Olympics. That's not a bad deal. Plus haven't you listened to these younger skaters? They are all aware of the situation, and PR or no PR, they will skate their absolute best, try to wrest Nationals away from Cohen, but also realize that they are not guaranteed a spot at the Olympics if they don't win Nationals.
Like I've said before, the Olympics isn't about giving anyone any experience internationally or otherwise. It's a competition that was started to have countries pit their best against everyone else's best. Right now, I believe our best still lies with Cohen and Kwan. And since Kwan has stated several times that if she isn't 100 percent she will pull herself out, I don't see the problem at all.
A "lights out" skate at Nationals doesn't necessarily mean that in the competitive atmosphere of the Olympics that skater will achieve the same "lights out" skate.
And she didn't compete this season because of a hip injury. I'm not talking about the years before this when it was her choice, which she has a right to make even if everyone just second guesses her from her to who knows where, but THIS season. And she was preparing to compete. I see that you must think Kwan was so afraid of losing to the Sashas (ha) and Maos (ha) of this world that she injured her hip and now injured her groin just because she didn't want to lose. Puh-lease, that's just right out there in left field. If she was so afraid to lose, she wouldn't have bothered showing up for Worlds 2005 because you can't tell me that she thought she had a chance to win there. And she's lost to Sasha before. Big deal.
What should be the point here is: Will we be sending our best if we send Kwan? My answer: Yes.
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to Real . But I'm afraid you are wasting your time. lol.Realistic51 says:
To be "Realistic" I think you might be singing a Swan Song, versus a Kwan Song if you "really" think she is "really" going to Olympics 2006! Face "Reality"!
And if she skates like crap and finishes 10th, I'll still be singing the same song because I don't have any other songs to sing right now. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
To be "Realistic" I think you might be singing a Swan Song, versus a Kwan Song if you "really" think she is "really" going to Olympics 2006! Face "Reality"!
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