Learning new things: Dual citizenship | Golden Skate

Learning new things: Dual citizenship

Spirit

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mods, I hope this topic's okay; it relates to figure skating in that there's been an awful lot of citizenship discussion in the last few months, but I'll understand if you wish to move it.

I was curious about dual citizenship -- what it really means and who allows it. So I did some poking around and learned new things, which is always a treat, so I figured everyone here would like to learn new things, too.

What I found was fascinating. The oath to become a naturalized U.S. citizen includes a complete renunciation of one's former allegiances. However, in today's world, this is a mere formality and is not aggressively pursued, and much of the free world apparently works the same way.

For example, when Tanith took her oath to become a U.S. citizen, she renounced all ties to Canada. But as far as Canada's concerned, she will always be a Canadian citizen unless she actually contacts the Canadian government and tells them otherwise; and unless she does something outrageous, such as take up arms against the U.S., no one will ever give a hoot about this from now until the end of time.

Likewise, if a U.S. citizen takes an oath for another country, and that oath includes a renunciation of U.S. citizenship, the U.S. still considers you a U.S. citizen because the oath is just a formality. One of the websites I visited cited the case of Marc Rich (he whom Clinton pardoned, to the chagrin of many). Evidently, Mr. Rich took the oath to become a citizen of Spain, and in so doing, assumed he was no longer a U.S. citizen because the oath included a renunciation, and he was just dead wrong about that.

This laid-back policy is backed up by the fact that the U.S. does not require U.S. citizens who become citizens of other countries to renounce their U.S. citizenship upon doing so.

Some dual citizenship issues have to do with whether you were a child when your citizenship was granted, or whether you were born into it.

Some countries, such as Haiti, have laws which say that you cannot be a citizen of that country and of another country at the same time under any circumstances. Some countries, such as Iran, say that you can renounce your citizenship all you want, but your butt will be forever theirs, so just learn to like it. Some countries, such as Korea, consider you a citizen if your parents or grandparents were born there, whether you like it or not.

Sometimes there are complications, such as the U.S.'s ability to help a dual citizen if the person gets in trouble in his other country. Sometimes there are passport issues to deal with (which should you use when entering and leaving the two countries?).

The U.S. policy (not law, but policy), currently and for the foreseeable future, is to recognize that dual citizenship exists but not to endorse it. Also, U.S. citizenship cannot be revoked, per se; you can only lose it by giving it up voluntarily, and if your behavior becomes sufficiently anti-U.S., you are considered to have voluntarily given it up, as exhibited by your actions. The current policy is to assume at first that you did not want to give it up; the State Department puts upon itself the burden to prove that that was indeed your intention. Again, this is policy, not law.

Here are the various web sites I found. Loads of fun reading.

The U.S. government official site, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services

The oath taken by naturalized U.S. citizens

A reference page at USCitizenship.info

DualCitizen.net -- a really neat help site for dual citizenships around the world

A long FAQ page put together by a guy who did the research and just wanted to share
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Also, U.S. citizenship cannot be revoked, per se; you can only lose it by giving it up voluntarily, and if your behavior becomes sufficiently anti-U.S., you are considered to have voluntarily given it up, as exhibited by your actions.
There is one exception for naturalized citizens - if it is proved that you lied on you citizenship application, it can be revoked. That is what the justice department did to revoke citizenship from several former Nazi criminals - prove they were Nazis and did not disclose this on the application, revoke citizenship, and then do whatever.

Also, it's interesting that technically serving in any non-US military is grounds for revoking citizhenship (what you refer to as "behavior becomes sufficiently anti-U.S."). However, courts have decided that serving in IDF (Israel Defence Force) does not provide enough ground :rock:

Sometimes there are passport issues to deal with (which should you use when entering and leaving the two countries?).
Personally, I left Russia back when my family had to pay 500 rubles/pp (average engineering salary being 160 rubles/month) to renounce citizenship. (In the early 90's I could easily re-instate it, but in my mind it was "good riddance".) Between getting my green card and my US citizhenship, I'd travel on the so-called "US Refugee Travel Document", aka re-entry permit. Try explaining to the customs of the world that you don't have any citizenship!

Anyway, back to topic. A lot of my friends have dual citizenship. They then use American passport for all purposes except entry into their native countries.
 
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hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Spirit said:
This laid-back policy is backed up by the fact that the U.S. does not require U.S. citizens who become citizens of other countries to renounce their U.S. citizenship upon doing so.
This laid-back policy is due to a Supreme Court detemination in the 90's; before that, the State Department considered US citizenship revoked if a US citizen became the citizen of another country. There are special provisions for reinstating US citizenship for those who became citizens of other countries before then and whose US citizenship had been revoked automatically.

As far as which passport to use, the US insists that all US citizens, dual or not, use their US passport when entering the US. Canada has issued a separate card that allows re-entry into Canada for those who must use a different country's passport for travel, because there are many places in the world where carrying two passports is considered grounds for questioning and detention.

Japan is another country that does not allow dual citizenship. That is why it was such a sacrifice for Rena Inoue to become a US citizen to compete with John Baldwin at the Olympics, and why Wakamatsu did not become a Canadian citizen to skate with Fecteau.

Among the countries that don't allow citizens to revoke their citizenship, visiting those countries can result in being forced to serve in the armed forces, pay taxes otherwise not assessed, and enforcement of other laws. I've had co-workers from India tell me that this has been an issue for them and their families, but I don't know specific details.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
hockeyfan228 said:
Among the countries that don't allow citizens to revoke their citizenship, visiting those countries can result in being forced to serve in the armed forces, pay taxes otherwise not assessed, and enforcement of other laws.
Most of my Russian male friends try to avoid visiting their homeland until they're out of the conscription age. (One can revoke their Russian citizenship, but it's expensive, and you have to make at least two trips to Washington DC)
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
From my discussions with many people who have dual citizenship, the US is firm on the US re-entry if you are a US citizen. You can have another citizenship but you can not use it in the US.

Some people I know have dual English and French citizenship, and they are happy to carry the Green Card because they do travel every year.

Avoiding Military Duty is always a big thing for escaping to another country.

BTW, what's the nationality of your baby if born outside your homeland?

Joe
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I believe that you are American born of Phillipines born parents, you have dual citizenship automatically.

At one time, the US did not recognize the marriages of Chinese immigrants. This prevented them from petitioning for the arrival of their families from China. My great uncle had a wife and son in China. After he came to the US, he met and married an American woman of Italiain descent. She knew about the 1st wife and made sure that he sent money overseas. The two of them had 3 kids together. When immigration laws were removed, my great uncle was able to petition for the entry of his son. Later, his son petitioned for his mother's entry. My great uncle passed before I could remember him. However, I have met both wives. For obvious reasons, the 1st wife can't stand the 2nd - fortunately, the 2nd can't understand the 1st. :biggrin:
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Many countries in the world allow dual citizenships. However, some do not. In those cases it is a sacrifice for the person that takes on another citizenship. Inoue not only had to give up her Japanese citizenship, but from what I heard, she can never regain it in the future. Some countries do allow their citizens to return to their original citizenship. I don't know the situation between Canada and USA. ABC's Peter Jennings had a dual USA-Canada citizenship, so I assume that is allowed in both countries. It also makes sense that one would carry the passport of the country he/she is about to enter and not bother to show the other passport.

Vash
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
One can have dual citizenship as those citizens of the Philipines After a trip abroad one must present a valid US Passport to enter the US. Even natural citizens have to do that.

All babies born in the US are natural citizens. Should the parents wish to keep their citizenship of their country they must seek the consulate of that country to register the baby who will then have dual citizenship.

Newly made citizens of the US do not necessarily become fans of American figure skaters but retain their cultural heritage from whence they came.

Joe
 

skatergirlaj

On the Ice
Joined
May 22, 2004
UK citizens can have dual citizenships,my husband has considered becoming a US citizen*he's a UK citizen* because even if he does,he'll always be considered a British citizen as far as the Crown is concerned*his words not mine,his family is all "God save the Queen" and all that*
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
skatergirlaj said:
UK citizens can have dual citizenships,my husband has considered becoming a US citizen*he's a UK citizen* because even if he does,he'll always be considered a British citizen as far as the Crown is concerned*his words not mine,his family is all "God save the Queen" and all that*
No problem but if they bring back militry conscription, he can be drafted.

Joe
 
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