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Thread: Senior Ladies final results

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    Senior Ladies final results

    Here's the link:

    http://www.skatecanada.ca/en/events_...omen&strlang=E

    Much better than the short. I was impressed with Rochette, who fought through her program and landed everything. Looks like she may be peaking towards the Olympics this year as opposed to last when she hit her peak at nationals. I liked this program better than when I first saw it.

    Nice battle between Mira Leung and Lesley Hawker. In other years either one of these performances probably would have won a national title - just shows how far Canadian ladies has come. I have to say, I was impressed with Leung and how much her new program has done for her. By far the best she has ever had. Still a few things she needs to work on, most notably for me, she has to be the only skater on the face of the planet who I want to tell to keep her chin DOWN. And a professional haircut would do wonders....those bangs....shudder. Very good choice to switch Free programs. Whoever choreographed it for her finally managed to find a style that suits her rather than just bland lyrical crap that did nothing but show off her weaknesses as a skater rather than highlighting her strengths.
    Hawker looked absolutely joyous, but she was not as strong as Leung on a number of elements.

    Ouch for a couple of skaters like Duhamel who crumbled painfully.

    Was very impressed with Tanika Gibbons. If this is how well she does when she can only practice one hour per day, I look forward to see what she can do when she gets a bit better. She has a lovely quality on the ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geisha
    I told you so. Mira is the most promising future star because of the astonishing consistency unmatched by her age.

    In my opinion, there are two types of top tiered competitors. Mier belongs to the class who has incredible consistency no matter what. I believe Kwan, Buttle belong to this group.
    ...
    All the other competitors are falling in between. Rochette, to many Canadian fans, she may be very appealing. But if you put her on the world stage, she just fares flat. In other word, she's sort of in-between. I just don't see she's got any brighter future in international competition. She's already peaked last year at national.
    As much as I adore Jeff, I wouldn't put him in the 'consistent' group. He's usually fairly consistent in the SP, but the LP is a different story. So I'd put him in the 'in between' group. In fact, I find Joannie more consistent than Jeff. I don't think shes peaked for her career yet. She's young and with a bright future. It's nice for Canada to have a ladies skater who can jump fairly consistently and has the 2nd mark too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geisha
    I told you so. Mira is the most promising future star because of the astonishing consistency unmatched by her age.

    In my opinion, there are two types of top tiered competitors. Mier belongs to the class who has incredible consistency no matter what. I believe Kwan, Buttle belong to this group.

    Another class belongs to those who are extremely talented, if they can perform well, they can beat anyone. But unfortunately, there's always something missing in their consistency. Cohen and Sandhu are this type.

    All the other competitors are falling in between. Rochette, to many Canadian fans, she may be very appealing. But if you put her on the world stage, she just fares flat. In other word, she's sort of in-between. I just don't see she's got any brighter future in international competition. She's already peaked last year at national.
    The key phrase being FUTURE star. I've never disputed the fact that she is quite talented with the potential to shine. She is still in "potential" however, as there are some things she needs to work on before she can be considered in that top tier group. I agree, her consistency is one of her strengths.

    I still don't understand your apparent dislike and dismissive attitude towards Rochette. It's not just Canadians who like her. She has shown she does not, in fact, fall flat on the world stage, winning GP medals and making it to the final last year and just missing a berth (as did many contenders from other countries) this year due to some weirdly-stacked events. She is really just in her second year on the senior world stage and has had GREAT results thus far, and I think she has great potential for more. I don't think she's anywhere near the end of her career. One of Rochette's strengths is to take the criticism given her and work on her weaknesses. A couple years ago, for example, she didn't have a proper lutz jump, only a flutz, so she totally broke down her jump technique and learned it properly, something that set her back in terms of results, but has now paid off in quality and being one of the not so many skaters who have a true lutz. Also, working on artistry and getting challenging choreography.
    Each to their own, I guess. Personally, I'm happy that we had three great skates in the LP for ladies. As I said in my original post, any one of the top three could have easily taken the gold in many a past Canadian championship, when ladies were at best landing about three triples in a program.

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    Custom User Title CDMM1991's Avatar
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    So happy for Lesley! Would have loved to see her go to the Olympics, but a podium finish is still great in comparison to all of her past results. She is one of the, if not the, nicest skaters I have ever met, and is also one of the most sportsmanlike athletes I have ever seen. She is a true inspiration I think, because even without great results, she has pushed through and continued to enjoy skating. I also find it extremely interesting and intriguing that she didn't land her first triple until she was sixteen. I think this shows that no matter how little "natural talent" you have at a young age, you can still succeed if you keep working. I do have to concede that Mira deserved it and is also a very gracious and sportsmanlike athlete.

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    I'm not Canadian, but I felt I had to post....

    Joannie has the total package. She has great skating skills, good jumping ability, beautiful programs, wonderful costumes, etc. So she had a disastrous long at last year's Worlds and she finished second to Alissa Czisny at Skate Canada last November- that's no reason to write her off. I think she wants to peak at the Olympics and she seems to be on track. And if she stays in for the next few years, who knows what's possible??? She seems to have the drive and determination.

    I admire Mira Leung for her determination. To me, however, she still a little girl on the ice. Her basic skating needs work. When I saw her performances from SA and SC, it looked like some of her jumps were cheated. I'm interested to see her new LP - hopefully it will be available on line for me to see. But IMHO, she also needs a makeover. Ditch the bangs. Pull the stockings over the boot or tuck them in. Wear a little make-up. Even in the National Team picture on the Skate Canada website - she looks like a little girl among the ladies. I know she's only 16, but at least wear a nice dress. Who knows, maybe we'll see someone very different in 2007....

    Herm (sk8ngnutt)

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    Quote Originally Posted by geisha
    I don't dislike Rochette. I admit she has probably far better 'artistry' element than Mira at this point of time.

    I am just taking her as an example of how to distinguish between a so-so skater and one with greater potential. Rochette is not bad at all, but it's hard to see how promising her career will be at age of 20. Generally, ladies' jumping ability will start to decline at this age. If she can't get into the top 8 at world stage now, she'll probably never be able to.
    I think you need to choose your words carefully. The way you have worded your posts, it sounds like it's a lost cause for Joannie.

    I want to use Fumie Suguri and Shizuka Arakawa as a comparison of not having a promsing career by age 20 and not making it into the top 8 on the World stage.

    Shizuka Arakawa was 16 when she skated at the 1998 Olympics in Nagano. She won the Japanese Nationals and claimed the lone Olympic spot available. She finished a respectable 13th. However, she didn't make the Japanese world team again until 2003 - when she was 21. And we all know what happened in 2004.

    Fumie Suguri skated at Worlds in 97 and 99, but finished out of the top 20. But she came alive in the 2000-2001 season. She regained the National title, won Four Continents, and finished 7th at Worlds in Vancouver - which qualified 2 ladies for the Olympics. Fumie was 20. She went on to finish 5th at the Olympics and win the bronze twice at Worlds.

    So it looks like for these ladies their jumping ability did not decline once they turned 20.

    Let's not forget - Joannie was 8th at the 2004 Worlds. So she has already finished in the top 8 at Worlds.

    Herm (sk8ngnutt)
    Last edited by hrmsk8ngnutt; 01-13-2006 at 11:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrmsk8ngnutt
    Let's not forget - Joannie was 8th at the 2004 Worlds. So she has already finished in the top 8 at Worlds.

    Herm (sk8ngnutt)
    Absolutely, and personally, I thought she should have finished higher that year. She actually skated far better than several of the ladies who were placed above her by the judges (Kostner, for example was given a huge gift after a totally disasterous skate).

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    Quote Originally Posted by screech
    As much as I adore Jeff, I wouldn't put him in the 'consistent' group. He's usually fairly consistent in the SP, but the LP is a different story. So I'd put him in the 'in between' group. In fact, I find Joannie more consistent than Jeff. I don't think shes peaked for her career yet. She's young and with a bright future. It's nice for Canada to have a ladies skater who can jump fairly consistently and has the 2nd mark too.

    ?????? Joannie consistent? Joannie is going to have to skate a lot better in her long program when she is up against the US and Japanese ladies at the Olympics and Worlds. She was okay for the Canadians, but will have to really focus when she goes up against the top ladies at the Olympics. Mira outskated Joannie. She is the kind of skater we have been waiting for so long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrmsk8ngnutt
    I'm not Canadian, but I felt I had to post....

    Joannie has the total package. She has great skating skills, good jumping ability, beautiful programs, wonderful costumes, etc. So she had a disastrous long at last year's Worlds and she finished second to Alissa Czisny at Skate Canada last November- that's no reason to write her off. I think she wants to peak at the Olympics and she seems to be on track. And if she stays in for the next few years, who knows what's possible??? She seems to have the drive and determination.

    I admire Mira Leung for her determination. To me, however, she still a little girl on the ice. Her basic skating needs work. When I saw her performances from SA and SC, it looked like some of her jumps were cheated. I'm interested to see her new LP - hopefully it will be available on line for me to see. But IMHO, she also needs a makeover. Ditch the bangs. Pull the stockings over the boot or tuck them in. Wear a little make-up. Even in the National Team picture on the Skate Canada website - she looks like a little girl among the ladies. I know she's only 16, but at least wear a nice dress. Who knows, maybe we'll see someone very different in 2007....

    Herm (sk8ngnutt)
    Mira Leung is only sixteen so I will forgive her for looking like a teenager. Actually it is refreshing to see someone who does look their age, I find many of the American girls - in their teens too made up trying to look like adults. Mira is a very matter of fact, focused skater with loads of talent still waiting to be developed. Canada has not had a ladies skater like her since Karen Magnussen turned pro. She has all the confidence in the world and as Tracy put it - "The Elvis factor" meaning she can focus so well.

    Her long program was awesome. She has come a long way since last season.

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    Well, when it comes down to which skater I'd rather watch. . . Joannie wins. I don't watch figure skating to see little girls jump. I watch to see women skate.

    Best of luck to both of them at the Olympics

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    Congrats to all the medalists...I hope I can download their performances! I wish I could so Rochette live because I do think she is a beautiful skater, and despite obvious missed jumps here and there, I always feel from tv that she is a little under marked. I have felt that way about Matt Savoi too, but after reading Doggygirl's post on another thread, I am wondering if Rochette too looks different (and frankly not QUITE as good) live compared to on tv. Regardless, a hearty congratulations to her!

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    Quote Originally Posted by geisha
    It is just plain wrong to claim Rochette was No. 8 last year at world champ. IShe was only 11th!!!!
    You not only need to pick your words carefully, you also need to read carefully - Joannie finished 8th in 2004!!!!
    Here are a few links:
    http://www.isufs.org/events/cat00004218.htm
    http://www.isufs.org/results/wc2004/cat002rs.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by geisha
    ..... Hawker said she thinks it was one of only three jumps Leung missed all year.

    “Yeah, that’s about it,’’ said Leung.

    Canadian girls have been known to miss that many in a short program.

    And she’s all athlete.

    “I had to help put her makeup on,’’ laughed McLeod. “She doesn’t wear makeup. She had a couple of round dots way down on her cheek. She looked like a cute little clown.’’

    With the makeup adjustment she came out and made Barbara Ann Scott think she looked like the Canadian skater she’s been waiting to watch since 1948.
    That's a great article... thanks Geisha!!

    Off topic, but I was wondering why, except for Mira Leung, no Canadian woman has respectable spirals. Most of the U.S. ladies have respectable to superb spirals and being so close you'd think the Canadian coaches would pick up on it on their athletes.

    Also, I wonder why Mira didn't try to squeeze more points out with more Bielman spin variations -- not that I think it's a good thing. But heck, Irina is doing it so why not if it'll serve her purpose.

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    All I've got to say is that Mira Leung may some day become a great skater. She IS NOT a great skater at the moment. It's fine to land jumps, in fact it's always exciting to see someone skate clean. The problem is that clean doesn't always mean you've performed a well-rounded program that includes everything else that great skating is about.

    Leung lacks basic skating skills. Yes, she is a much better skater than last year but she still has a long way to go to be seen as any kind of threat on the world stage. Rochette IS a threat on the world stage. She may not challenge for gold at the Olympics, but she has an outside shot at the bronze, or at least top 5. Leung has a shot at top 15.

    Jeff Buttle is not a consistent skater. Sure he's got great artistry and sells his programs well, but look at his results from the previous two Skate Canada events: he led after the SP only to stumble badly in the LP. His silver medal performance at Worlds was far from well skated. He missed out on Worlds a couple years ago for blowing it at Candians (although I still don't see why they didn't send him anyway since sending Ben Ferreira was a joke).

    To say that Mira Leung outskated Rochette is not a true statement. It's a naive way to look at skating: basically looking at who landed more jumps and declaring them the winner. There is so much more to skating than jumping. Yes this is a sport but if it were only about jumps there would be no need for the artistic mark. Worlds could be like the Top Jump competition where skaters are judged on how well they perform their jumps only if this were the case.

    We must always remember that most skaters are more consistent with their jumps when they are younger. It's when they start maturing and developing a style on the ice that they tend to lose some of their consistency. Will that happen with Mira? Maybe, but hopefully not. It's worth thinking about though.

    One more thing. Since joining this board Geisha, you seem to be looking for a fight. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I have some friendly advice for you. Support whatever skaters you want to but let others have their opinions as well. If you're going to point out a skater's flaws back it up with facts instead of select reading and random statements. If you start looking at things in a more well-rounded way you'll find that your experience here will be quite fun.
    Last edited by mike79; 01-14-2006 at 01:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndieBoi
    Also, I wonder why Mira didn't try to squeeze more points out with more Bielman spin variations -- not that I think it's a good thing. But heck, Irina is doing it so why not if it'll serve her purpose.

    I understand your point about the scoring system, but just have to shudder anyway.....No more Beillmans, please! I have never been so sick of looking at a position in my life. It's almost to the point it should be banned. At least Leung's changed hers to the Mao Asada variation with one hand - Leung actually hits that position much better and looks much more elegant getting in and out of it than she did the regular Beillman. Slutskaya's overuse of the Beillman has really started a horrible trend that is a blight on the choreography of ladies skating. There needs to be a Beillman rule - like the Zayak rule is for jumps - that you can only repeat the position so many times before it no longer counts.

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