Dance finals - results, etc.

mike79 said:

No matter what people think about D&V they bring a dramatic and personal level to their skating that seems to have been missing from Ice Dancing for the last four years. There is no question that they were the crowd favorites at Euros, especially considering the boos for N&K's marks.

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I only saw them once but it was memorable. They have that uniqueness that I like. Technically, I believe all dance teams are on the ball. D&V are not into this passion thing which everyone is doing. Delobel and Lauzanne also are unique but judges seem to want that passion thing. I don't.

Joe

slutskayafan21 said:

Keep in mind that was after the 2002 Worlds where they were definitely victims of a horrable decision that created a scandal. Are you forgetting that many skaters signed a petition protesting their losing the bronze medal to the Israelis team, who at the time had technique on a far lower level than the Lithunians?

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As a C&S fan I certainly do. May I add that if the Isreali's were from a stronger national federation this would not have happened. Why didn't anyone get a petition for B&K when they were screwed over?

Ptichka said:

If that was so, they would have retired long before they did. Chait & Sakhnovsky getting that bronze was a slap in the face to Margarita & Pavilas; the ISU was basically telling them - we don't care how well you skate, we are not giving you any medals, we don't care how much better than other skaters you are.

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And the ISU had never done that before? How about B&K? Maybe the ISU was saying they thought C&S were just better at that competition? There are only three medals, being ranked number four is not a slap in the face. A slap in the face is being treated like C&S were after winning their bronze medal. Instead of being congratulated by their peers they were treated like crap because Rita acted like a three year old. If D&V were real competitors they would have sucked it up and came back the next year and tried to do better. If everyone wants to sign a petition everytime the judging doesn't go as they want I suggest they start lining up now for the post Olympics petitions.

Piel said:

If D&V were real competitors they would have sucked it up and came back the next year and tried to do better.

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I don't know if I'd go that far. D&V were over 30 even then and had been around for a long time (I think as far back as the 1992 Olympics). I'd say it was pretty much a given that they were going to retire after 2002. I'm fairly confident in thinking that they didn't plan on retiring and coming back this year. Petition or no petition I'd say they were going to retire regardless of what happened.

Piel said:

And the ISU had never done that before? How about B&K? Maybe the ISU was saying they thought C&S were just better at that competition? There are only three medals, being ranked number four is not a slap in the face. A slap in the face is being treated like C&S were after winning their bronze medal. Instead of being congratulated by their peers they were treated like crap because Rita acted like a three year old. If D&V were real competitors they would have sucked it up and came back the next year and tried to do better. If everyone wants to sign a petition everytime the judging doesn't go as they want I suggest they start lining up now for the post Olympics petitions.

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I must also add that it wasn't just the wining by Rita, it was the rather anti-semitic remarks Pavlos was making in regard to Galit's father "buying" the medal. I don't recall all the details but I am sure it's quoted in numerous articles.

4 years later, Russian press (though never a golden standard for journalism) still refers to that bronze medal as "bought".

I always saw that bronze medal as a punishment to D&V for raising the stink after the Olympics. If anything C&S were innocent bystanders but ended up paying for that "gift" for years to come.

I always liked D&V style and innovative moves and felt that they should've won the bronze at the SLC 2002 games but after those comments that were said with regard to C&S integrity, I was really turned off by them.

STL_Blues_fan said:

I must also add that it wasn't just the wining by Rita, it was the rather anti-semitic remarks Pavlos was making in regard to Galit's father "buying" the medal. I don't recall all the details but I am sure it's quoted in numerous articles.

4 years later, Russian press (though never a golden standard for journalism) still refers to that bronze medal as "bought".

I always saw that bronze medal as a punishment to D&V for raising the stink after the Olympics. If anything C&S were innocent bystanders but ended up paying for that "gift" for years to come.

I always liked D&V style and innovative moves and felt that they should've won the bronze at the SLC 2002 games but after those comments that were said with regard to C&S integrity, I was really turned off by them.

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I don't think I have this whole story. First, I never heard anything about anti-semitism. Second, I don't understand how a bronze medal was a punishment after the Olympics. The 'stink' was raised, I believe, by Navka and supported by Denkova, and it was directed at Chait's father - not the skaters. I could be wrong. I don't remember much about it from the American press.

Joe

I recall that Lithuaninas protested their placement after the Olympics. I think they may have even filed a petition - seemed that everybody were protesting. So it seemed to me that the 4th placement at Worlds following the Olympics for D&V was the "punishment" for speaking out at the Olympics. I recall all other petitions were done by the Federations, not the skaters.

After the worlds, it was Navka, Denkova and Lang who got the petition going.

Yes, Pavlos was making remarks about Galits father. I vividly recall him saying that "those people think they can buy anything" - now, it is obvious who "those people" are - typical Soviet assumption about Jews controlling everything financially. Goldenskate has a brief article on the matter, sadly w/o any quotes:

http://goldenskate.com/articles/2001/032402dance.shtml

I had difficulty finding any articles with the quotes, if you are interested, I will do more digging.

I don't remember those remarks by Pavilas. But I do remember people saying they heart Galit's father telling Zhulin "Get a hold of your b****, or she may never get home in one piece".

Oh My

All this off-ice intrigue! Me, I just like the P&V skating better than I like the C&S skating... or did at the Olys and subsequent Worlds. I haven't see recent P&V skating and can't say now. I know that the C&S skating has improved dramatically. I'm looking forward to seeing them both skate again in the same competition.

About the only reason for me to care what the judges think is that it is the skater's placement that, for the most part, determines what is televised. I look forward to some kind of pay-per-view of the entire competition so that I can see more than just a few skaters. The ones I enjoy the most are not necessarily the ones on top.

Linny

The remarks against Boris Chait (Galit's dad) were not anti-semitic but anti-criminal. Whether or not there is truth in this, there was (is?) a perception in Skateland -- not just Russia -- that the dude may have links to organized crime. That's an albatross around C/S's necks, as they are a lovely pair of ice dancers.

After the brou-ha-ha involving the Russian Mafia criminal in the possible 'trade' of votes at Salt Lake between Russia (to win pairs) & France (to win ice dance), I'm sure that the ISU & Intl Oly Committee want to steer clear of any future whiff of Russian Mafia. Sadly, Galit & Serge are caught in the middle of this quadary, even if they are totally innocent. Galit's dad may have simply had a bit too much vodka at '02 Worlds and flapped his mouth at Zhulin but the perception remains.

Well, the guy supposedly linked to SLC scandal is not Russian, but Turkmenian or Kyrgyzian - can't recall.

Abviously, no excuses for Boris's threats but he well could've been drunk and most importantly people often don't mean what they say. If somebody cuts me off in a traffic I may say I would like to shoot that a&& but do I really mean it? Of course not.

Here's another article on the matter. I guess what you may see as anti-criminal somebody else may see as anti-semitic. Being Jewish who grew up in Russia I know all too well what Pavlos meant. BTW, I am not easily offended.

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0...10/edition_id/8/format/html/displaystory.html

Well, I have a Russian connection too (married into Russian Orthodox family, although nobody really practiced religion until a few years ago). I know where you're coming from but rest assured that a huge segment of the Russian population thinks in terms of "Criminal vs Ordinary People" and do not peg a religious background to either group!!! ) My family who are still in a small village near Moscow -- freezing their tushes off these days -- are just trying to stay below the criminal radar and get on with their lives. Everyone thinks in terms of avoiding the criminal, not the Jewish criminals. It's really not an anti-Jewish obssession. Maybe with a few idiotic skinheads but those punks don't speak for the Russian population in general.

If anything, I hear the word "Jewish" used in connection with philantrophy and opportunities.

p.s. For some reason, I swear I know you, STL-Blues.fan, from other message boards & we've met at events. There can only be one Jewish-Russian fan who lives in Albany, NY, and also knows about ballet & writes on the message boards, as you do!!!! Spraznikom!

p.s. Yes, that guy was Central Asian but he did his work for a Russia-based mob.

Hi Frau,

I agree with most of your post, though there is more anti-Jewish sentiment in Russia these days than skin-heads attacking people and vandalizing cemeteries.

A typical Soviet stereotype of Jewish people is that they have the most money and use it to get what they want. I would hear stuff like that all the time. So when I (and other Russian-Jewish people) heard Pavlos's comments we saw them as offensive. I guess some things may not appear offensive to me but may be very insulting to another ethnic group. I wouldn't be offended if that comment was made by somebody other than an ex-USSR citizen. And going back to the 2nd article, nobody seemed to accuse B&S or A&P of "buying" the medal - and there was a mafia guy involved too (supposedly). Why is that only Galit and Sergei were being asked "how much did the medal cost you"? BTW, I never knew that there are rumors about Boris Chait being involved with the mafia.

Anyways, I hope your relatives in Moscow stay warm! I can't believe that it's colder in southern parts of Russia now than in STP, where I grew up!

PS - this is the only forum I post at actually. Albany has a sizable Russian community (made up of many religious backgrounds). I bet thought I have ran into this person at varous ballet and FS events that come to Albany. I am very envious of this person attending Worlds in DC!!!!This is such a small world though. Yana