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Thread: Mens FS

  1. #31
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDMM1991
    Yay! Ilia officially has the second spot for Russia at the Olympics! All he had to do was finish above Dobrin!
    Praise to be!! One report had him not giving his unique style but just the spins and jumps. I have to see this but happy he's up there. Whatever happened to Griazev?

    Lambiel over Joubert - Why not? Style v. wooden. Stephane made his 3A!!!

    My much too early prediction about a European podium at the Olys for the Men is becoming realistic.

    Joe

  2. #32
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    GOE could be the decider if it's used correctly

    Only a spin as fast and centered as Lambiel's should get full GOE points. Period. Don't care how many positions or change of edge there are.
    Linny

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linny
    Only a spin as fast and centered as Lambiel's should get full GOE points. Period. Don't care how many positions or change of edge there are.
    Linny
    Too bad the judges are blind to this however.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Praise to be!! One report had him not giving his unique style but just the spins and jumps. I have to see this but happy he's up there. Whatever happened to Griazev?

    Lambiel over Joubert - Why not? Style v. wooden. Stephane made his 3A!!!

    My much too early prediction about a European podium at the Olys for the Men is becoming realistic.

    Joe
    Your much too early prediction is looking like money in the bank now. Be very surprised if we dont see a Euro sweep of the mens in Turin.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Praise to be!! Whatever happened to Griazev?

    Joe

    So thrilled for Klimkin!!!

    Griazev had an horrible meltdown at Russian nats and finished very low. I am not even sure if he would get any GP assignments next year - maybe only Cup of Russia.

    Check out Anna's reports on the Russian Nationals.

  6. #36
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    Both Plushenko and Lysacek have weak spins. Evgeni can not do a real sitspin. He must be doing that horrendous bielman for the points but still no real sitspin.
    Plushenko's not doing the Biellman, and his spins have actually improved a lot (so have Joubert's). And Lambiel had two level 1 spins in his long program, IIRC. I don't understand his decision not to upgrade all his spins.
    Last edited by Jimena; 01-22-2006 at 01:54 PM.

  7. #37
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    Everybody says that Plushenko, Joubert, etc.....all improve their spins alot but I dont see it whenever I see them skate. The judges simply choose not to reward Lambiel and Buttle in GOE on their spins enough to differentiate them between much weaker spinners like Plushenko, Joubert, and Lysacek, the GOE scores are also reduced in the scoring format which lowers its meaning more, and the rules for level values on spins are ridiculous as well. Even Weir was confused to why some spins he was using earlier in the year where not getting higher levels, it is only about changing edges and positions, and some of them look plain ugly, and are not really harder than other ways you could make a spin harder. Spin scoring is pathetic under the new rules, you might as well just do blah spins since you will get the same scores.

  8. #38
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimena
    Plushenko's not doing the Biellman, and his spins have actually improved a lot (so have Joubert's). And Lambiel had two level 1 spins in his long program, IIRC. I don't understand his decision not to upgrade all his spins.
    Lambiel is an artist first, and technically brilliant. Anyone who can do the combo spins and stay in one spot is my kind of athlete.

    Joe

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Lambiel is an artist first, and technically brilliant. Anyone who can do the combo spins and stay in one spot is my kind of athlete.

    Joe
    Mine too, maybe in a year or two the judges will catch on as well.

  10. #40
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    I have to say that I am losing all interest in watching competition skating these days. The new system has the potential to be a very good system but the in my opinion the judges just seem to be refusing to use it properly. There is no doubt in my mind that Plushenko deserved to win the gold and that Lambiel deserved to win the silver but the margin between the two is ridiculous, much the same as that between Slutskaya and whoever comes second to her and it is frustrating in the extreme to watch this so I can't imagine what it must be like to skate under it.

    Say what you like but IMO the Torino gold medals are a done deal for the Russians unless they have a total meltdown.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by diver chick
    I have to say that I am losing all interest in watching competition skating these days. The new system has the potential to be a very good system but the in my opinion the judges just seem to be refusing to use it properly. There is no doubt in my mind that Plushenko deserved to win the gold and that Lambiel deserved to win the silver but the margin between the two is ridiculous
    Considering that Lambiel did not have a faultless freeskate, I think the margin between Plushenko and Lambiel was right. After all, Lambiel was only 3rd in short programme, and that difference must not be forgotten from the final result.

    http://www.isufs.org/results/ec2006/

    SP scores
    Plushenko 82,80
    Joubert 77,85
    Lambiel 74,73

    The LP scores
    Plushenko 162,53
    Lambiel 154,14
    Joubert 145,10

    Final result
    Plushenko 245,33
    Lambiel 228,87
    Joubert 222,95

    Between Plushenko/Lambiel the latter was because of the short programme performance 8,07 points behind, which increased because of his freeskate mistakes by 8,4 points = total 16,46 points behind.

    To be able to compete successfully against Plushenko, Lambiel must perform clean performances both in short programme and freeskate. And also read the detailed classification to get it, what he needs to upgrade to be competitive against Plushenko.
    Last edited by Jaana; 01-23-2006 at 06:25 AM.

  12. #42
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Both Plushenko and Lysacek have weak spins. Evgeni can not do a real sitspin. He must be doing that horrendous bielman for the points but still no real sitspin.

    Joe
    I don't think i saw a Biellmann in either program - the donut spin yes and it crawled round very slowly but no Biellmann...unless i erased it from my mind in horror!

    Ant

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21
    Everybody says that Plushenko, Joubert, etc.....all improve their spins alot but I dont see it whenever I see them skate. The judges simply choose not to reward Lambiel and Buttle in GOE on their spins enough to differentiate them between much weaker spinners like Plushenko, Joubert, and Lysacek, the GOE scores are also reduced in the scoring format which lowers its meaning more, and the rules for level values on spins are ridiculous as well. Even Weir was confused to why some spins he was using earlier in the year where not getting higher levels, it is only about changing edges and positions, and some of them look plain ugly, and are not really harder than other ways you could make a spin harder. Spin scoring is pathetic under the new rules, you might as well just do blah spins since you will get the same scores.
    The improvement in Jouberts spins is phenomenal...loko at his spins in his Matrix LP and the ones in this seasons LP and the change is huge - the speed the centre, the positions...he actually hits full sit and changes edge while remaining centred. The change is clear to see, he still isn't as fast in the rotations or as fluid in the change in positions as lambiel but an imporvement it is. While i respect Lambiel for chosing to stick with what he wants to do there's no denying that he needs every last point in order to try and catch Pluschenko up and i think he's foolish for not doing. The pattern is clear - the international judges are unlikely to give +3 GOEs so he can't rely on getting them for simpler spins. To my mind lambiel's camel spin has gotten worse as the season has progressed and his free foot doesn't get up to level with his hip, maybe the judges are not giving him high GOE's for that?

    Ant

  14. #44
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana
    To be able to compete successfully against Plushenko, Lambiel must perform clean performances both in short programme and freeskate. And also read the detailed classification to get it, what he needs to upgrade to be competitive against Plushenko.
    That's understandable Jaana but it just seems strange to me that one of the problems with Lambiel is his SPINS. What is it that Evgeni is such a spinner?

    Joe

  15. #45
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    Spins - Lambiel v. Plush

    For each segment, I'm listing total spin base value, followed by total spin GOE, followed by total spins TES.

    SP:
    Lambiel: 7.4 + 1.86 = 9.26 (3 L3 spins)
    Plush: 7.9 + 1.36 = 9.26 (2 L3 + 1 L4 spins)

    FS:
    Lambiel: 9+1.79 = 10.79 (2 L1 + 2 L3 spins)
    Plush: 11.6 + .92 = 12.54 (2 L3 + 2 L4 spins)

    Lambiel is gett rewarded more in GOE (total of 1.37 more factored GOE than Plush across both programs) but Plush has a 3.1 point base value advantage. That's quite a vew base points to leave on the table for someone who is good at spinning. I can't believe he's doing 2 L1 spins in his FS. I can easily imagine a scenario where 3.1 points could make a difference in the color of a medal, or a medal at all at the Oly's. (maybe not between Lambiel and Plush, but between Lambiel and somebody)

    DG

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