quick question about 2000 nats

just a quick question about the 2000 nationals.... after the short program, who was leading after the short program, sasha or michelle?

bethissoawesome said:

just a quick question about the 2000 nationals.... after the short program, who was leading after the short program, sasha or michelle?

Click to expand...

Sasha

Sasha led after the short program. It created quite a sensation in that a new 15-year-old burst into the scene and outskated Michelle.

Of course, Michelle won the long program and the US title, and Sasha finished second - her first medal at senior Nationals.

Do you all think that Sasha would have won the title had she not fallen on the last triple toe(program was clean otherwise, I believe Michelle was clean as well). Or do you think they would have still given it to Michelle(even though they put Sasha higher after the short), because she is Michelle?

They would have still given it to Michelle, because.....she's Michelle!

IMO, they would not have given it to Michelle because she is Michelle -- in 2000, Michelle had won two Nats in a row, but was defeated by Maria Butyrskaya at Worlds after Peggy predicted that "Michelle would have to leave the building to lose". In other words, she didn't have the same mistique that she developed later -- especially at Nats. If there was anything on the list of "stuff that judges are not supposed to consider, but do anyway" was that Sasha was not age-eligible for Worlds; under the rules at that time, Sasha could go to Sr. Worlds if she medaled at Jr. Worlds -- but she didn't.. I doubt that the USFSA would have given the US title to anyone who could not go to Worlds.

Any one in the arena at 2000 Nationals?

Check out Sasha's ice coverage, edge quality, even her spins. AFAIK even at 2002 worlds (after SLC) her spin (especially the camel spin) was no better than Michelle....according to those who were in arena, even Sasha skated clean, MK would've still won.

Sasha should win 2000 title. Even she fell on the last jump, but she skated the entire program with speed, great edges, and high jumps, plus her artistry. I don't feel her falling on last jump affected the program flow much at all. Michelle's Red Violin was sparkless, and she skated it slow and causious.

jesslily said:

Sasha should win 2000 title. Even she fell on the last jump, but she skated the entire program with speed, great edges, and high jumps, plus her artistry. I don't feel her falling on last jump affected the program flow much at all. Michelle's Red Violin was sparkless, and she skated it slow and causious.

Click to expand...

Sasha was not the skater she is now. Her ice coverage was inferior to Kwan, and basic skating skills were much more inferior to Kwan than it is now which affected her speed.

Kwan's program was much better than Sasha, though Sasha had more spark, I'll give her that.

jesslily said:

Sasha should win 2000 title. Even she fell on the last jump, but she skated the entire program with speed, great edges, and high jumps, plus her artistry. I don't feel her falling on last jump affected the program flow much at all. Michelle's Red Violin was sparkless, and she skated it slow and causious.

Click to expand...

Were you in the same arena I was? She was beautiful to watch, but slooowwww and didn't have near the edge quality or ice coverage that she has since developed. Michelle had much better basics on every element over Sasha except for the layback. Speed, edge control, coverage, security of the jumps, steadiness of the spirals, etc. And what almost everyone forgets is that Sasha barely hung onto second place. In fact IIRC Sasha didn't get any 1st place ordinals, and lost 4 second place ordinals to Sarah Hughes. One more judge and Sarah would have placed second.

I remember clearly thinking "where is NNN?" who had impressed me the year before with her speed and attack - which was very uncommon in such a young skater. In fact I predicted that NNN would out distance Sasha very easily once they were both healthy.

Of course I also predicted that Cyndee Lauper would hang around for a decade and Madonna was a flash in the pan, so what do I know?

Edited to add the LP marks for 2000 Nationals:

1. Michelle Kwan Los Angeles FSC 1.0
Tech 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.6 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.8
Pres. 5.9 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.9 5.9
Ordinals 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1

2. Sasha Cohen Orange County FSC 2.0
Tech 5.7 5.4 5.8 5.6 5.5 5.7 5.6 5.8 5.8
Pres. 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.6 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.8
Ordinals 3 3 2 3 3 2 2 2 2

3. Sarah Hughes The SC of New York 3.0
Tech: 5.7 5.6 5.6 5.7 5.8 5.7 5.6 5.7 5.8
Pres. 5.8 5.6 5.8 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.8 5.7
Ordinals 2 2 3 2 1 3 3 3 3

My memory was correct. One judge would have made it a silver for Sarah. Sarah was the one to earn a 1st place ordinal over Michelle. Sasha didn't.

it was a remarkable short that anyone watching had a gasp. The LP was equally brilliant for the young Sasha. She was the new 'Tara' on the block for 2002 Olys.

I do believe Kwan's LP scores were a product of 'held up'. JMO

Joe

I must admit that I did not attend the 2000 Nationals to watch both Michelle and Sasha's performance in my own eyes. For most competitions, I watched from TV.
TV camera may not acurately reflect each skater's speed, power and total skating ability. But it's unlikely to make a slow skater look skating very fast.
I believe Sasha skated very well both short and long, in terms of speed, edges, spins, and artistry. Her jumps were higher, quicker, and more technically right than now. She has out skated Michelle definitely. As for marks, they were given by human being. They were held up for Michelle since Sasha just came out as a 15 years old first time senior competitior.

Skate Sandee said:

She was beautiful to watch, but slooowwww and didn't have near the edge quality or ice coverage that she has since developed. Michelle had much better basics on every element over Sasha except for the layback.

Click to expand...

So do you think her lead after the short was accurate or do you think the lead should have gone to Michelle?

Where everybody can judge for themselves...

Sasha's 2000 National programs can be found at this link...

http://www.shanfan.com/skating/videos/cohen/cohenvideos.html

Michelle's 2000 national programs can be found at
http://www.cruelladekwan.com/

Short

http://www.cruelladekwan.com/aditl.htm

Free

http://www.cruelladekwan.com/redviolin.htm

*~RussianBleux~* said:

So do you think her lead after the short was accurate or do you think the lead should have gone to Michelle?

Click to expand...

Absolutely Sasha in the short. SP is about 8 elements. In that portion, Sasha (as history has subsequently shown) was definitely the best.

But any comparison of Kwan and Sasha in the LP needs to include Hughes. Despite the way some fans want to paint Sasha's loss to Kwan as a narrow one, they are ignoring the evidence that she barely hung onto her second place. Only Hughes was able to secure a 1st place ordinal. Somes fans love to think that Sasha was edged out. But if that were the case, then Sasha should have scored 2nd place ordinals and possibly a few 1st place ordinals across the board. She was not the technique and precision skater that she is today. In fact her improvement over the last 6 years gives me a lot of hope for Alissa C.