Navka & Kostomorov angry at "random draw" | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Navka & Kostomorov angry at "random draw"

nubka

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Doggygirl said:
Hmmm....could it be that N/K are missing the good old days of ice dancing under 6.0 where for the most part it seemed that the "favorites" were pre-determined, and there was little to no room to move skaters between placements in different phases, or HORRORS not award the faves the gold medal? I just suspect that in the old days, the Oly gold might have been more "in the bag" for N/K than it is now.DG

Doggygirl, my thoughts exactly...good post !
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Doggygirl said:
Hmmm....could it be that N/K are missing the good old days of ice dancing under 6.0 where for the most part it seemed that the "favorites" were pre-determined, and there was little to no room to move skaters between placements in different phases, or HORRORS not award the faves the gold medal? I just suspect that in the old days, the Oly gold might have been more "in the bag" for N/K than it is today.
If that is what N/K are missing, it means they were hurt by it in the past, when the then favorites were pre-determined. I thought they were closer to L/A than the standings showed -- I thought L/A were overrated and N/K underrated -- but as the second Russian team, there wasn't incentive to raise them up.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
hockeyfan228 said:
If that is what N/K are missing, it means they were hurt by it in the past, when the then favorites were pre-determined. I thought they were closer to L/A than the standings showed -- I thought L/A were overrated and N/K underrated -- but as the second Russian team, there wasn't incentive to raise them up.
Well, maybe that's what they were thinking. We paid our dues, then when it gets to be our turn they change the rules on us.
 
S

SkateFan4Life

Guest
Mathman said:
That's quite true. Still, I doubt that the average figure skating fan or once-every-four-years Olympic observer will be so understanding.

What if Irina wins the Olympic gold medal over Michelle just because the random draw selected the scores of the Russian judge instead of the American judge. Hoo boy!

MM

Here we go again! Such an action would be lambasted by the media, especially the American commentators at NBC. However, this kind of random drawing is the way it's done, so there would be precious little that could be done about it except whine, moan, and groan.
 

Piel

On Edge
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Isn't the judging panel selected by random draw to begin with? If so a judge's scores not being selected to count is no different than them not making the cut to be on the panel.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Piel said:
Isn't the judging panel selected by random draw to begin with? If so a judge's scores not being selected to count is no different than them not making the cut to be on the panel.
Yes, but it is hard to get people to understand -- or even to consider -- that argument. The more likely reaction is, oh, they're all a bunch of crooks anyway, this is just some more wool pulled over our eyes.
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
hockeyfan228 said:
If that is what N/K are missing, it means they were hurt by it in the past, when the then favorites were pre-determined. I thought they were closer to L/A than the standings showed -- I thought L/A were overrated and N/K underrated -- but as the second Russian team, there wasn't incentive to raise them up.

Nope. What I am suggesting is that N/K might feel entitled to the same treatment the "team(s) before them" seemed to get, which IMO involves favorites being pre-determined, and favorites possibly being over-rated (as you mention). I could be very wrong - the "Judge Ugly" in me is definitely rampant tonight.

DG
 

LBC

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
I've got a question. Why are their non European judges at Europeans?

Anyways is there always a judge from each region included on each judging panel? If so then would the Canadian judge here who is the only one from NA be assured of not being randomly thrown off?
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I needed an updated Figure Skating for Dummies book. Obviously, Kristi can't 'write' it since she's never competed under it.

If I understand correctly, there is a random draw of judges. During the competition, all judges score the event. However, by random computer draw, only the scores of certain judges are used to determine the winner. The scores from the judges not selected by the computer are not used for any of the competitors, but it seems as though they are available for review.

I'm presuming that the report lists all the scores by judge, but only identifies each as Judge #1, Judge #2, etc.

I don't think that it's equal to use judge 1-9 for skater 1 and then judge 2 -10 for skater 2 because people rate people differently. You have to compare scores for the same judges to ensure the same 'perspective' consistently for eacy performance.

That's why I hate writing performance reviews for people that are going to be compared against performance reviews written for other people by others. Some people mark overgenerously and others are more critical. It's not fair to compare the review written by someone overgenerous and compare the review for someone else written by someone critical. In all likelihood, the truth is in between.
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
LBC said:
I've got a question. Why are their non European judges at Europeans?

Anyways is there always a judge from each region included on each judging panel? If so then would the Canadian judge here who is the only one from NA be assured of not being randomly thrown off?

I believe that Euros and 4CC are considered international, ISU events. I think that means they have ISU judges, which I assume could be selected from any country based on where ISU judges come from. I would hope that country of origin would have nothing to do with whether a judge is randomly chosen/not chosen in terms of their scores counting. I wish the ISU would get rid of this secret stuff altogether though.

DG
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
heyang said:
I don't think that it's equal to use judge 1-9 for skater 1 and then judge 2 -10 for skater 2 because people rate people differently. You have to compare scores for the same judges to ensure the same 'perspective' consistently for eacy performance.
For each phase (quali, SP, LP, CD, OD, FD), a set group of judges is selected to count. It is the same group of judges for all skaters during that phase. At the beginning of the next phase, a new group is selected, and that new group of judges' scores count for all skaters.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
hockeyfan228 said:
For each phase (quali, SP, LP, CD, OD, FD), a set group of judges is selected to count. It is the same group of judges for all skaters during that phase. At the beginning of the next phase, a new group is selected, and that new group of judges' scores count for all skaters.
Hockeyfan -This would answer my previous question if the judges change from QR to SP to FS. But can judges in the QR be called back to judge the FS?

I'm not getting at anything specific. Just some knowledge.

Joe
 

euterpe

Medalist
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
There are two groups of QR judges, each with a Referee, a Technical Controller, a Tech Specialist, Assistant Tech Specialist and 10 judges. The Referee, Controller, TS and ATS for the SP and FS is chosen from one of the QR groups. Then from the pool of 20 judges, 12 are selected. I don't know if the selection is done by the computer or by drawing straws, but each judge for the SP and FS was in one of the QR groups.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Thanks euterpe. Of course each of the QR entries has separate judges, etc.

For the SPand FS, I believe you are saying that among the officials in ONE of the groups of the QR continues to judge the SP AND the FS. So the judges in the SP will also be the same in the FS.

If I got that right, then the other judges from the group not chosen just disappear before the SP?

Am I correct?

Joe
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The judges in the SP and LP are chosen from both of the quali groups, and it is the same panel for both SP and LP.
 
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