Looking Back - The 1992 Olympic Figure Skating Competition - The Ladies | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Looking Back - The 1992 Olympic Figure Skating Competition - The Ladies

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
slutskayafan21 said:
They deducted .1 to .2 for Kristi`s mistakes? Kristi`s marks were 5 5.7s and 4 5.8s for technical merit, and all 5.9s(except 1 5.8)for what was then called artistic impression. Are you saying the judges were planning to give her all 5.9s for technical merit had she skated cleanly, as the first skater, with two skaters to come planning triple axels? That is what her marks would have been with the .1 to .2 you say the judges deducted.

Didn't Kristi also land a 3Lz/3T combination in the LP? Technically the doubling of the Salchow wasn't a mistake - remember under 6.0 you didn't get marked down for what you didn't do you got marks given based on what you did do. So I think giving 5.7s and 5.8s lef tplenty of room for the other skaters who may have done more in the jumps by way of triple axels...and also don't forgot that the Marks were place holders so even if a judge gave as high marks as 5.8 for tech and 5.9 for presnetation, they still had the following to give out for a skater who did better: 5.8, 6.0; 5.9, 5.9; 6.0; 5.9; 6.0, 6.0;

Ant
 
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slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Ogre Mage said:
The early 90s was a revolutionary time in ladies skating. As recently as 1988, most ladies' LPs only contained 4 triples, usually only performing the 3sal and 3toe, perhaps a 3loop for the top contenders. By 1992 the ladies were banging out 7-triple LPs, including 3axels, 3/3 combinations and two 3lutzes. Unfortunately, in the white hot pressure of the Albertville Olympics many of these highly difficult programs turned into big splats on the ice.

Ito and Yamaguchi had wickedly difficult LPs which would be competitive today if they were tweaked for CoP. Both attempted 7-triple LPs with a 3/3 combination. Ito also attempted the 3axel, but Yamaguchi countered with difficult jump entrances. She had footwork into her 3flip, a back-bend into her 3loop and a split jump into her 3toe. I also agree that Kristi's Blue Danube SP was an absolute gem. It flowed like honey from a pitcher.

I think that after the SP, the competition was more or less over. In those days, you had to be in the Top 3 after the SP to control your own destiny. If you were 4th or lower, you had to both win the LP and have the SP leader finish 3rd or lower in the LP to win. After the SP the standings were:

1. Yamaguchi
2. Kerrigan
3. Bonaly
4. Ito
5. Hubert
6. Harding

With their powerful jumps and high technical difficulty, Ito and Harding had a strong chance to beat Yamaguchi in the free skate, but they were mired in 4th and 6th place due to falls. The skaters in 2nd (Kerrigan) and 3rd (Bonaly) simply didn't have the overall ability to challenge Kristi, the defending World Champion. Kristi would have had to really melt down in the LP to lose the OGM and that did not happen.

That is my thinking as well. With Midori and Tonya where they were the competition was over already. There is no way Nancy or Surya were a threat to Kristi, the thought of that is laughable. The judges very high technical, and two major errors, only further verifies that the judges were thinking the same perfect(5.9 is perfect realisticaly) artistic scores for Kristi as the first skater with thing everybody was thinking after the short, "this event is already over".
 

Ogre Mage

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
slutskayafan21 said:
The judges very high technical, and two major errors, only further verifies that the judges were thinking the same perfect(5.9 is perfect realisticaly) artistic scores for Kristi as the first skater with thing everybody was thinking after the short, "this event is already over".
Well, she really only had one major error (the fall on the 3loop). The doubled salchow was more of a minor error, like a touch-down or step-out. 6.0 didn't penalize double jumps the way CoP does. Strangely, under CoP the 2sal would probably be a bigger deduction than the fall on the 3loop, since I believe the loop was fully rotated.
 

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Ogre Mage said:
Well, she really only had one major error (the fall on the 3loop). The doubled salchow was more of a minor error, like a touch-down or step-out. 6.0 didn't penalize double jumps the way CoP does. Strangely, under CoP the 2sal would probably be a bigger deduction than the fall on the 3loop, since I believe the loop was fully rotated.

Sorry I just hate when people make out falling on a jump, and doubling a triple jump as minor errors. I would always want the Olympic Gold medal to be won by a flawless performance. If Ito and Harding had both done their triple axels and not messed up any other jumps I would have had both ahead of Kristi in the long with her errors, and if Ito had been over Harding as well that would have given Ito the gold medal. I even might have had Kerrigan over Kristi if she had done her 7 triple-program cleanly, although there was 0.002 of that happening.
I hated Bonaly's skating at that time, but she might have won a bronze if she skated cleanly because of all the mistakes.
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The competition isn't just about the jumps though - at least it shouldn't be. However, jumps are usually the most spectacular elements and the most obvious mistakes.

In some ways, I think a really good spin is harder to do than a jump. Lots of skaters can jump somewhat consistently, but how many can spin like Ruh or Lambiel?
 

Ogre Mage

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
slutskayafan21 said:
I even might have had Kerrigan over Kristi if she had done her 7 triple-program cleanly, although there was 0.002 of that happening.
Well, that's just how it was under 6.0, a doubled jump wasn't considered as big a mistake as a fall. Kerrigan's 3/3 combo was a 3toe/3toe (though she only did a 3toe/1toe), which was easier than Kristi's 3lutz/3toe and Nancy only had one 3lutz planned (which she popped), while Kristi had two (and landed them both). Her technical content wasn't up to Kristi's standard. This is why she really had no chance, besides the fact Kristi was World Champ.

I would have had Ito and Harding ahead of Kristi the LP if they had skated perfectly, but they both fell in their LP as well as their SP. Also, both Midori and Tonya did not complete their planned 3/3 combos -- Ito did a 2lutz/3toe and Tonya a 3sal/2toe. Kristi was the only top contender to pull off a 3/3 combo jump in the LP and on artistic impression she clearly outclassed Midori and Tonya.

Albertville was high on technical difficulty but low on clean performances. IIRC, Viktor Petrenko, the men's OGM, didn't have a great skate either.
 

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Ogre Mage said:
Well, that's just how it was under 6.0, a doubled jump wasn't considered as big a mistake as a fall. Kerrigan's 3/3 combo was a 3toe/3toe (though she only did a 3toe/1toe), which was easier than Kristi's 3lutz/3toe and Nancy only had one 3lutz planned (which she popped), while Kristi had two (and landed them both). Her technical content wasn't up to Kristi's standard. This is why she really had no chance, besides the fact Kristi was World Champ.

I would have had Ito and Harding ahead of Kristi the LP if they had skated perfectly, but they both fell in their LP as well as their SP. Also, both Midori and Tonya did not complete their planned 3/3 combos -- Ito did a 2lutz/3toe and Tonya a 3sal/2toe. Kristi was the only top contender to pull off a 3/3 combo jump in the LP and on artistic impression she clearly outclassed Midori and Tonya.

Albertville was high on technical difficulty but low on clean performances. IIRC, Viktor Petrenko, the men's OGM, didn't have a great skate either.

It is funny even though Nancy did not have even close to the technical difficulty of Kristi, Tonya, or Midori in 92, she actually had plans to do 1 more triple than she was doing by 94, and in 94 she still was doing only the triple toe-triple toe and only 1 triple lutz. I also prefered the artistry of her 92 programs to her 94 programs. Yet according to you(and probably correctly)although we never found out for sure since she didnt skate cleanly, it is funny that even with a clean skate she probably would have won only silver or bronze even with Kristi, Midori, and Tonya all making major mistakes, yet in 94 there was alot of outrage with some people that she did not win despite a major error(doubling the triple flip)in the long. It just shows how much womens skating diminished by 94, from its 92 standards.

As somebody said earlier in this thread the 92 group could easily compete, and probable topple, the current group of top ladies 14 years later, assuming they had COP-friendly programs as far as spin level rules, etc.......Even if that final long was a bit messy that night, it was an outstanding crop and great to watch those two years. Also whether I agree with Kristi's high scores with her two errors as the first skater or not, to have such high technical difficulty that almost no top women today match it, yet be such an exceptional artist all the same, and be that consistent as a skater, is an extraordinary combination to have had a full 14 years ago.
 

Ogre Mage

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Definitely. Kristi, Midori, an in-shape Tonya and even Nancy would be big players if they were on the scene today. All four had 7-triple programs with 3/3 combinations. Midori and Tonya also had the 3axel while Kristi and Nancy had strong artistic impression. Like I said before, it was a revolutionary time. If you look at the change in women's skating from '84 to '88, there wasn't a big change in technical difficulty. But from '88 to '92 -- it was like an entirely different sport. A lot of the credit for this must go to Midori. When she became the first woman to land the 3axel at 1989 Worlds, women's skating changed forever.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Ogre Mage said:
The doubled salchow was more of a minor error, like a touch-down or step-out. 6.0 didn't penalize double jumps the way CoP does.

No the double salchow under the 6.0 would not have been an "error" of any sort. Under 6.0 you got marked for what you did do not what you didn't do - a clean double salchow was a clean double salchow, not a flawed triple. A step out or touch down on a triple jump would mean the triple jump was not counted as a triple under 6.0 therefore the fall on the triple loop negated the jump i.e. it counted for nothing - the triple loop was not completed and depending on the disruption to the program may have affected the presentation mark.

Ant
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
slutskayafan21 said:
Sorry I just hate when people make out falling on a jump, and doubling a triple jump as minor errors.

As i've already stated un der hte 6.0 system a doubling a triple jump was not considered an error anywhere.

It makes me think back to (was it) 1997 worlds where Todd popped his final triple axel to a big single and then went for it again regardless but fell on the double. Most people at the time believed that had he left it with the big popped single axel he would have walked away with his second gold medal but stalking the triple axel and falling cost him the gold. Under CoP of course he oul dhave been stuck with the single axel and run out of jumping passes but the damage in doing a single axel instead of the triple would have probably cost him the title anyway.

Ant
 
S

SkateFan4Life

Guest
JonnyCoop said:
I think this is a relevant competition to remember right now, with Torino just around the corner. In '92, the consensus seemed to be that since Harding and Ito had the triple axel and Yamaguchi didn't, Yamaguchi wasn't going to win that year. (Yamaguchi herself said she was prepared to have to wait till '94 if she had to). Well, Harding was 0-for-2 and Ito was 1-for-2 in triple axel attempts, so for all that talk of triple axel triple axel triple axel, only 25% of them turned out that well.
Now as we head into Torino, among the Ladies we are hearing triple/triple, triple/triple, triple/triple... Granted, more ladies have the triple/triple now than had the triple Axel in '92, but....... Let's see how many of them stay upright, shall we? It's slippery out there. This OGM could just as easily be decided by a different factor entirely.....

IMHO, the gold medal will be won by the woman with the best all-around program, and I expect that the champion will NOT land a triple axel. There is so much more to figure skating than triple axels, anyway. I just hope that everyone skates great programs, and the competition is closely contested.

The last thing I want to see is spatfest on the ice - a situation in which the winner is the skater who makes the least number of major mistakes. UGH.
 
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