- Joined
- Aug 18, 2003
bronxgirl said:The ISU and the other powers that be show flexibility and compassion?:chorus:
This of course is true - I forget who we are dealing with sometimes!
Navka skips doping test in Europeans, N/K's Turino trip in jeopardy
- Thread starter rjulie510
- Start date
This of course is true - I forget who we are dealing with sometimes!
Evdokia said:
Let me tell you something, if I could wait around for the medal ceremony (which they did), I sure as he!! would have peed in the cup and if I couldn't get the costume off, I would have had my husband help me. These people aren't living under a rock. There have been suspensions in skating, and they are probably aware of the suspensions in rhythmic gymnastics as well. Drug tests aren't something to be played with and there is nothing the Russian Federation can do to help her if it is found that she did not take a drug test (either purposefully or by mistake). I hope for her sake that the issue gets resolved in her favor, but drug tests are serious business and the ISU has to enforce the rules.
I also want to add that there is very little compassion and flexibility when it comes to drug tests. Witness the scandal that happened with the American track team and other famous athletes who were stripped of medals and suspended b/c of failed drug tests. Look how they are putting Lance Armstrong through the wringer and he hasn't even failed a drug test. Unfortunately there are a lot of cheating athletes in other sports that make it hard to show leniency.
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Mafke said:
I think doping could be a problem in skating. Rhythmic gymnasts have been busted using diuretics to maintain a low bodyweight. This is also a drug wrestlers use to reach a certain wrestling weight. I think there are a lot of skaters who have extremely skinny bodies (esp in ice dance) who could be using diuretics or other weight control drugs that are banned substances.
Doping control is over ALL sports. They can't pcik and choose drugs on the basis of which ones help which sport. Imagine how expensive and time consuming it is to develop tests for each sport and different qualifications. I can see the Track and Field athletes complaining if clenbuterol is not a banned substance for figure skating and a banned substance for them. There are athletes who have asthma who can't take their regular meds b/c they are banned and have to do without them (Jackie Joyner Kersey, Amy Van Dyken and a host of others). Irina got permission for her treatment b/c she has a life threatening illness.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Soogar ITA! (imagine that,LOL)
I take it the "chaperone" has one of the worst jobs in the world.......accompanying athletes to make sure the urine sample is indeed that of the athlete being tested.
The article said that the member of the pair being tested was determined by random draw and that it was Navka's name that was drawn. I am not sure how much help they would have allowed Zhulin to give her in getting undressed and all. Rules for this kind of thing are usually very specific. I know of employers who test randomly and if you can't produce a sample in one hour no matter what the reason it is considered refusing the test....doesn't matter if your mother just died or you're having a heart attack. You would not believe the extremes people have been known to go through to avoid a drug test.
The Russian Fed. wants that OGM for N&K, so I am baffled that the team doctor didn't step in and do what team doctors are supposed to do....check out the wound and make sure she gave the sample. That she was able to finish the program and attend the medal ceremony is very telling, I think. The test for nerve or tendon damage (the dangers of a laceration to the hand) are very simple and could have been done in a minute by any medic on site. If the bleeding was under control enough to accept her medal, she could have taken time to take the test.
I'm afraid that refusing the drug test will probably be with her long after the laceration has healed.
What good is it to only test half of a team?
I take it the "chaperone" has one of the worst jobs in the world.......accompanying athletes to make sure the urine sample is indeed that of the athlete being tested.
The article said that the member of the pair being tested was determined by random draw and that it was Navka's name that was drawn. I am not sure how much help they would have allowed Zhulin to give her in getting undressed and all. Rules for this kind of thing are usually very specific. I know of employers who test randomly and if you can't produce a sample in one hour no matter what the reason it is considered refusing the test....doesn't matter if your mother just died or you're having a heart attack. You would not believe the extremes people have been known to go through to avoid a drug test.
The Russian Fed. wants that OGM for N&K, so I am baffled that the team doctor didn't step in and do what team doctors are supposed to do....check out the wound and make sure she gave the sample. That she was able to finish the program and attend the medal ceremony is very telling, I think. The test for nerve or tendon damage (the dangers of a laceration to the hand) are very simple and could have been done in a minute by any medic on site. If the bleeding was under control enough to accept her medal, she could have taken time to take the test.
I'm afraid that refusing the drug test will probably be with her long after the laceration has healed.
What good is it to only test half of a team?
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That's what I've been told too, that you need to get stitches pretty soon after the accident, cause otherwise the risk of inflammation gets too high. However, I think that's the case if you don't get any medical treatment at all, maybe it's different if you get it cleaned and desinfected? And then you can wait with doing the stitches for a specialist to have you checked? :think:Joesitz said:
Sure, there are a lot of athletes cheating, but does this justify to force other clean athletes to risk their health just to catch the bad ones? That's like witch hunting in middle ages! :scowl:soogar said:
And if drug tests are so important, than it’s the officials in charge of it, who should make sure that the athletes are able to do the test, like diver chick said, why didn't any of the official follow Navka to hospital and had her tested there while she was waiting for treatment? :banging:
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- Jul 27, 2003
The ER staff can check for nerve/tendon damage and if there is none the ER doc or physician's assistant sutures the wound. If there is, then they call a plastic surgeon. This is not a life threatening injury. They check for loss of sensation indicative of nerve damage and for the abilty to move the hand usually by having the patient touch each finger to the thumb to rule out tendon damage.
If she was able to "risk her health" to attend the medal ceremony she could have "risked her health" to take the drug test.
If she was able to "risk her health" to attend the medal ceremony she could have "risked her health" to take the drug test.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Shanti said:Yes, the same case with pairs.
My thoughts of the N/K situation (also checking my reading comprehension):
1. The article is based on hearsays (and who's the doping chaperone, btw?) - not a single comment from a ISU official.
2. The story is only in L'Equipe - no mentioning in any other paper (Globe and Mail citing L'Equipe). And not a single word in the Russian media - I searched for the news today.
3. It's not said she didn't go to the doping test later.
4. I believe the cut could be pretty bad - she had to hold the blade with a cut hand for a few seconds (for the lift to be ratified) and it is strain for the hand. And I'm not surprised if she was concerned about it.
5. It's hard to believe Navka and Zhulin (both with YEARS of competitive career) were ignorant of the rules and were willing to put participation in the Olys to jeopardy.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I'll wait for some official word, which will come eventually if there is a problem. If nothing else, I'm sure this article has the "interested parties" all searching around for more information. My guess is that if there is an issue, we'll hear more about it from other sources. For now, I'm not clear that we have the facts.
DG
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
OT I know but when my dad had his toenail removed, he told the Dr. he was not going to him for a headache!:chorus:Evdokia said:I'd like to know what that doctor cited would call an "absolute emergency" - if one has cut his head off? Navka was obviousely bleeding heavily (if you watched Zhulin in the K&C he care more for her hand, than for the marks), and a hand is an important body part for ice dancers (and one difficult to treat with all the nerves & tendons in there). - With Kostomarov making the test, I can see that first aid was more important for Navka then the drug test. :think:
I don't understand all the drama which is made about this now?
She did not go to the hospital until the next day, because an ISU doctor looked at her hand and did not consider it a serious injury. When she got stitches the next day, that doctor also concurred that the injury wasn't serious. The nine stitches were for cosmetic reasons.
In effect, Navka DID refuse the drug test. She was selected by random draw to be tested, and left the premises without providing the sample.
Kyoko Ina was suspended from ISU competition for two years because she was unable to produce a urine specimen late at night, on demand.
Doping rules are very, very strict and no exceptions are allowed, especially where the Olympic games are concerned. I'd say Navka is in deep trouble. I'm just wondering if the Russian federation has the pull to get her out of it.
In effect, Navka DID refuse the drug test. She was selected by random draw to be tested, and left the premises without providing the sample.
Kyoko Ina was suspended from ISU competition for two years because she was unable to produce a urine specimen late at night, on demand.
Doping rules are very, very strict and no exceptions are allowed, especially where the Olympic games are concerned. I'd say Navka is in deep trouble. I'm just wondering if the Russian federation has the pull to get her out of it.
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- Jul 31, 2003
Piel said:
A competitor fights through injuries that occur while skating, unless it is impossible for the body to go on. What did you expect? N&K would stop skating, stop the bleeding and then ask the judges to finish their program, or just forfeit the title?
Vash
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- Jul 27, 2003
Had this been an American dance team Dick Pound would have been on every media seeking sanctions on the couple or beheadings depending on who the team was.
However since the team in question is Russian, Pound probably sent the skater in question a get well card and muttered "Oh well" under his breath.
That's just my opinion and I could very well be wrong.
4dk
However since the team in question is Russian, Pound probably sent the skater in question a get well card and muttered "Oh well" under his breath.
That's just my opinion and I could very well be wrong.
4dk
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- Jul 27, 2003
If it was a life threatening injury, then yes. My point is that she was able to finish her program, she was able to do the medal ceremony, and she was able to go without sutures until the next day. But she was too injured to give a urine speciman? You can't have it both ways. A laceration that can be closed with only nine sutures is probably four inches long at most. The bleeding was under control and she wasn't having enough pain to keep her from the podium. There was no reason for her to not do the test. If she was 12 I can see how this might have been traumatic enough to keep her from the test, but not a grown woman, especially with the Olympics riding on it. The funny thing is that if she was injured as badly as some are making it out to be one of the first things they woulddo in the ER as part of routine lab work would be to have her give a urine speciman. If my trip to the Olympics was on the line and I didn't think I could physically produce a speciman, (whether it was because I couldn't get my tights off or I was too anxious to pee) I would have demanded that someone catheterize me rather than refuse the test.Vash01 said:
4dogknight said:
Genuine curiosity....am I missing something? Why would Pound go easier on a Russian dance team - or are you being sarcastic?
Editing here because I actually had some other thoughts...
While I honestly doubt Navka is on drugs and has anything to hide, I also doubt she was too injured to do the urine test. As others have pointed out, she finished her skate, she hung around for the medal ceremony and waited until the next day to get stitches. One would think a wrap bandage and a what? five minute trip to the bathroom with a cup would have avoided all this kurfuffle. So chalk it up to a diva thing, maybe?
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