Christians in skating | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Christians in skating

doug_log

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
swannanoa54 said:
Well, that's kinda rude, doug. No one here is ignorant except by your standard. I happen to know quite a bit about "religion", Catholicism, Mormons and Protestants. The subject interests me in learning how different beliefs are actually the same just stated differently. But to come here and call posters ignorant is really debasing THEIR beliefs and THEIR opinions.

Anyhow, I believe the idea behind the thread was for swizzle to be able to encourage a figure skater who shares the same beliefs as she/he. That's not so bad at all. Matter of fact, that's pretty nice.:agree:

Yes, pretty nice. I think I made it clear that I also think it's pretty nice. See the end of my post especially. I stress that religion can be an interesting and stimulating topic. No where in my thread do I say that religion should be a no-go. Swannanoa (very nice town, btw), I request that after rereading my post, that you remove from your post the implication that I believe that Swizzle's topic is a bad one.

My standard for ignorance is a belief in possessing and professing an untruth as fact. To use your terms, when people think "THEIR beliefs and THEIR opinions" are facts, then that is ignorance. And this thread smacks of it. It is my opinion that that is undeniable.

Am I debasing ignorant posts? Maybe, but I think "drawing attention to problematic posts" is a better phrase

Are there ignorant threads? Undeniably. Did I attack anyone? Not by name, but a simple game of connect the dots will show you three of the more extreme example of ignorance and the people who created them.
 

Piel

On Edge
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
I am Catholic and am not offended by this thread. Swizzle's intention is a good one I think. Actually it is the duty of all Christians to support each other. She asked which skaters were Christian so she could encourage them. She did not attempt to force her beliefs on skaters who do not share her faith. As for inaccuracies regarding different religions I don't think they are being made out of hate, just misinformation.

This does belong in LeCafe.
 
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swannanoa54

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
doug_log said:
Yes, pretty nice. I think I made it clear that I also think it's pretty nice. See the end of my post especially. I stress that religion can be an interesting and stimulating topic. No where in my thread do I say that religion should be a no-go. Swannanoa (very nice town, btw), I request that after rereading my post, that you remove from your post the implication that I believe that Swizzle's topic is a bad one.

My standard for ignorance is a belief in possessing and professing an untruth as fact. To use your terms, when people think "THEIR beliefs and THEIR opinions" are facts, then that is ignorance. And this thread smacks of it. It is my opinion that that is undeniable.

Am I debasing ignorant posts? Maybe, but I think "drawing attention to problematic posts" is a better phrase

Are there ignorant threads? Undeniably. Did I attack anyone? Not by name, but a simple game of connect the dots will show you three of the more extreme example of ignorance and the people who created them.

Actually you aren't connecting any dots in my post. I didn't implicate that you thought the thread was bad, that's why I separated the second paragraph from the first. I do think you are debasing opinions. If you don't like them, then follow your own advice and don't read those posters' opinions. Simple to do. And I did not say anything was a "fact" when referencing someone's opinions or beliefs. Not all opinions/beliefs are founded in "fact". But if someone chooses to state them as "facts", then it is up to others to discount them as non-facts. Simple once again.

And yes, Swannanoa is very nice. I have relatives there. I love that area up there in the mountains. :rock:
 

doug_log

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
swannanoa54 said:
Actually you aren't connecting any dots in my post. I didn't implicate that you thought the thread was bad, that's why I separated the second paragraph from the first. I do think you are debasing opinions. If you don't like them, then follow your own advice and don't read those posters' opinions. Simple to do. And I did not say anything was a "fact" when referencing someone's opinions or beliefs. Not all opinions/beliefs are founded in "fact". But if someone chooses to state them as "facts", then it is up to others to discount them as non-facts. Simple once again.

And yes, Swannanoa is very nice. I have relatives there. I love that area up there in the mountains. :rock:

And it is the moderators' responsibility to keep the forum from becoming a less-than-dilettantish discussion of religion, which is where this thread is right now.
 

IDLERACER

Medalist
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
swizzletwizzle said:
What I mean by that is there are Catholics & Protestants who claim to be Christians, but they don't have Jesus in their heart. Without that, you really can't be a Christian. So, there are Catholics & Protestants who aren't Christians.
:scratch: Just out of curiosity, how on earth is anybody here supposed to know what goes on in the hearts of athletes...or anyone else for that matter?
 

Grgranny

Da' Spellin' Homegirl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Actually, one of the big faults in people is judging. I cannot judge whether you are a Christian or whatever since I am not God. That is one place where I evidently fail. I say that because if you have a temper or get angry, you are judging someone, something or yourself. It is really hard to not judge. We all do it. My worst is judging myself. So, all that are getting angry in some way are judging. :love: :love: :love: :clap: :rock: :love: :love:
 

BridgetJ

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
Naomi Nari Nam used to always sign her name with something like "Jesus loves you" and/or "In Christ" back in '99 and '00 when she would update her online diary. Susan Ng also would sign her name that way on her online diary. She spoke a little aout her faith. I remember a story about Michael Weiss where Evelyn Kramer thought he was Jewish and he replied that he was Lutheran (or could have been Presbyterian I can't remember); one of my favorite programs by Michael is his "Lord's Prayer", the costume, the choreo, and the emotion are wonderful. Yoshie Onda does the sign of the cross before skating. Tanith Belbin's grandfather who recently passed away, was a reverand (Tanith also wears a gorgeous cross, it's just like one my mom owns). Oksana Baiul has mentioned her faith (she once said that she's not perfect, she's not Jesus) and Katia spoke about how imporatant her faith is to her in "My Sergei" and "Letter to Daria". When Scott was on the Today show to discuss his recovery from the brain tumor he mentioned that his "church family" was really praying for him and seemed to credit that for getting through the biopsy and it not being cancer. Many skaters, particulary those from the former Soviet Union wear crosses and crucifixes, too. And of course the skaters like Paul and Janet that have already been mentioned. :)
 
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Joined
Dec 30, 2005
BridgetJ said:
I remember a story about Michael Weiss where Evelyn Kramer thought he was Jewish and he replied that he was Lutheran (or could have been Presbyterian I can't remember)

Methodist. I only remember because I was brought up in that church. :)
 

iluvtodd

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
United-States
BridgetJ said:
. I remember a story about Michael Weiss where Evelyn Kramer thought he was Jewish and he replied that he was Lutheran (or could have been Presbyterian I can't remember);

I read that Michael was Methodist in Christine Brennan's Inside Edge (check out the top of page 248). I am Jewish, and I was kind of surprised to learn that Michael wasn't Jewish. I know many Jewish people with the last name of Weiss (of course you can't always go by people's last names & assume anything). Hey, I assumed that Stephanie Rosenthal was Jewish, but during her free skate, it looked like she was wearing a cross, so I guess she's not.

I have always assumed that all Catholics are Christians.

Whatever the case, religion is a personal matter. I enjoy and respect all of the skaters for their talent and what they bring to the sport independently of their religious beliefs.
 
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Aloft04

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
It seems to me that Christ, or Buddha or Mohammed for that matter, would simply pray for mankind to excel, not some narrow segment of it.

But that's just me....more blood has been shed by this type of mental segregation/delineation than any other single reason in the entire history of the world. Sad, really.

Religion, in my opinion, should be an intensely personal and private dialogue between one and their god(s). The world would be a better place for it.
 
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Joined
Dec 30, 2005
iluvtodd said:
I read that Michael was Methodist in Christine Brennan's Inside Edge (check out the top of page 248). I am Jewish, and I was kind of surprised to learn that Michael wasn't Jewish. I know many Jewish people with the last name of Weiss (of course you can't always go by people's last names & assume anything). Hey, I assumed that Stephanie Rosenthal was Jewish, but during her free skate, it looked like she was wearing a cross, so I guess she's not.

And I thought she must be Mormon because she lives in Utah....:laugh: .

FWIW, Inside Edge is where I learned of Mike's Methodism, also.

ETA: Great post, Aloft!
 
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heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think we sort of got into a conversation about this in the thread where someone's co-workers were demeaning Christians.

One of my friends is Christian and born Catholic. She distinguishes as follows. Christians seek to learn the teachings of Jesus Christ - it's not just the belief, but the active study of his teachings. Some Christians do not consider Catholics to be Christians because some Catholics base their devoutness upon the rituals (ie. attending mass, praying, rosaries, etc), but do not practice the teachings of Christ in their day-to-day lives (i.e forgiveness, faithfulness, truthfulness). While Christians do espouse forgiveness of these 'sins', they do not think the simply going to confession means absolution - that comes from changing one's behavior which is proof of accepting Christ's teachings.

Some Catholics believe that going to mass and donating to the church makes them a good Christian. Meanwhile, they might be unfaithful to their significant others, etc. I think that people who call themselves Christians want to distinguish themselves from these types of Catholics.

Personally, I do believe that most Catholics and Protestants can call themselves Christians, but there are some who really shouldn't.

As for Buddism and Confucianism, they are philosophies of life - not religions. If there's anything that Chinese people revere, it is their ancestors. Chinese culture traditionally respects the elders of the community. There is celebration of birth as continuation of the family and then celebration of age. Traditional Chinese families do not make big occasions of childhood birthdays, etc. They prefer to honor the accomplishments of the elders - not the folly of youth.

Of course, being a child of Chinese immigrants who were in their late teens when they emigrated, I did have the occasional birthday party. However, I also dutifully go to the cemetary 2x a year to maintain the gravesites of the deceased and bring food and money to provide for them in their afterlives.
 

IDLERACER

Medalist
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
:cool: As a side note, I'd just like to mention that this is a pretty long conversation, considering it was initiated by someone who we'll probably never hear from again. SwizzleTwizzle's profile indicates that he/she is 17 years old, and my guess is that he/she probably goes to some parochial high school named after Jimmy Swaggart in the south.

I'll wager anything that at this very moment, SwizzleTwizzle is making the rounds of all the different winter sports forums asking people who he should root for in the olympics. In that culture, it's drilled into your head at a very young age, that the only real Christians are the ones who are constantly yacking about their Christianity. They believe that the only way to prove that you've got Jesus in your heart, is by persistantly amplifying him through your larynx.
 
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
heyang said:
One of my friends is Christian and born Catholic. She distinguishes as follows. Christians seek to learn the teachings of Jesus Christ - it's not just the belief, but the active study of his teachings. Some Christians do not consider Catholics to be Christians because some Catholics base their devoutness upon the rituals (ie. attending mass, praying, rosaries, etc), but do not practice the teachings of Christ in their day-to-day lives (i.e forgiveness, faithfulness, truthfulness). While Christians do espouse forgiveness of these 'sins', they do not think the simply going to confession means absolution - that comes from changing one's behavior which is proof of accepting Christ's teachings.

Some Catholics believe that going to mass and donating to the church makes them a good Christian. Meanwhile, they might be unfaithful to their significant others, etc. I think that people who call themselves Christians want to distinguish themselves from these types of Catholics.

Personally, I do believe that most Catholics and Protestants can call themselves Christians, but there are some who really shouldn't.

Please, like some of those who call themselves "Christians" haven't done some of the same things? I seem to remember a couple of "Christian" TV preachers being caught in the act of adultery. I think "people who call themselves Christians might also want to distinguish themselves from these types of 'Christians'"!!!!

Idleracer - :rock:
 

CzarinaAnya

Medalist
Joined
Aug 29, 2003
Misplaced Gymnast said:
Please, like some of those who call themselves "Christians" haven't done some of the same things? I seem to remember a couple of "Christian" TV preachers being caught in the act of adultery. I think "people who call themselves Christians might also want to distinguish themselves from these types of 'Christians'"!!!!

Idleracer - :rock:


Is it my fault, as a Christian, that these 2 pastors did what they did? I know that there are some great tv pastors i.e. T.D. Jakes and Joel Osteen, and there are some that are just out for greed. The ones out for greed are just posers, and have nothing to do with what a real Christian is supposed to be.
I'm sorry you feel such anger.
 

Grgranny

Da' Spellin' Homegirl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I told me to keep out of this but me didn't. :rofl: I can't speak for others but what we believe is you have to believe in Jesus Christ and that he died for our sins. No one is perfect. I can't be bothered by what others do or think as that is not my business. We believe in trying to live a good Christian life and helping
with good works. Good works do not get you to heaven. We try not to sin but that is impossible. Everyone is a sinner. No one sin is greater than another. That is what is hard to believe. Even judging is a sin. I suppose I should get my bible out and see what it says but I am overwhelmed with what is going on with my life right now and just can't stay up all night. I rarely get even six hours of sleep as it is.

I will have to say that it just breaks my heart when people say anything against Christians. Or put down Christianity.
 

Grgranny

Da' Spellin' Homegirl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Another thing that I feel is wrong. You will find some in all parts of life that give something a bad name. I don't feel that anyone should think that if one preacher does something wrong that all Christians do it. There are going to be some things bad in all walks of life and you just can't say because one Christian is a crook that they all are. I don't understand that attitude at all. But it sure doesn't help the rest of us that are trying to do their best. I guess Granny needs to tie up her fingers. :rofl:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Heyang, I don't see how you or your friend can set yourselves up as arbiters of who is a true Christian (me) and who isn't (the other guys). A Christian is a person who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. This believe is honored by different people in different ways.

Anti-Catholic bigotry is not very "Christian," to me.
 
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