Russian article on Irina (not good news)

dancindiva03 said:

Thank you. People are so quick to jump on the "steroid" aspect without any knowledge about the different types of steroids. Prednisone is NOT a performance-enhancing drug.

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Yes, it IS or at least it was for my MIL. As soon as she had a breathing treatment with this drug, we were amazing the difference in how energetic she got. I'm not saying everyone reacts to this drug the same way but I certainly think Irina has had her best skates since taking Prednisone, so I believe it does enhance her performance. I've personally seen what it did with my MIL so I know what it can do to give a person energy.

I Promise This is My Last Post on This Thread...Tonight

Several people have questioned, with good reason, why Irina could be skating so well while she has a disease as serious as vasculitis. This post is just my opinion, based on my knowledge and understanding of vasculitis, as to what's been going on with Irina's health and her skating.

First, IMO, Irina probably had vasculitis at least a year before it was diagnosed. It's the kind of disease that can either hit you like a wrecking ball or creep up on you slowly. Hence, before Irina was away from skating for a year and in the hospital, her vasculitis had probably been creeping up on her gradually, causing her skating to be very erratic, as it was during the '02/03 season--remember her meltdown at Euros?

Jump ahead to Irina having been diagnosed and getting appropriate treatment for her vasculitis. Whatever medication(s) she's taking would be intended to decrease the inflammation in her blood vessels caused by vasculitis and the resultant deterioration of those vessels. She may also be taking medication to slow down the autoimmune response of vasculitis. An autoimmune response is when the body "thinks" the molecules of its own normal tissue are "invaders" such as a bacterial or viral infection, which causes the body to send out its white cells and what are called "auto antibodies" to destroy what it thinks are "dangerous invaders" when in fact they are her body's much-needed blood vessel tissue.

Thus before Irina was diagnosed and received appropriate treatment, her body was trying to destroy its own blood vessels. As Piel has emphasized, vasculitis, like all autoimmune diseases, attacks in fits and starts--"flares" as they are called. So the person with vasculitis without knowing it would go through periods of feeling fine but then have "flares" of feeling absolutely awful, which is when the body "decides" to attack the "offending" tissues.

So then Irina spends time in the hospital resting and getting appropriate medication to suppress the disease. As she recovers as a result of the rest and appropriate medication, Irina would be able to gradually start training again. Now that the vasculitis is being suppressed by the medication, Irina would probably find that she is able to train much more vigoressly than she had before. She feels stronger than she did before diagnosis and treatment, and this is eventually reflected in her skating.

In other words, we had been watching a hobbled Irina skating at least as early as the '02/03 season, if not earlier. I'm speaking in possibilities. Once the vasculitis is being suppressed by proper medication, naturally Irina would skate with greater strength and endurance than she had in the previous few years--at least for a while. The thing about treating autoimmune diseases with antinflammatory and immune suppressing drugs such as prednisone is that in the early stages of treatment the person who has it feels great for perhaps a year or more, perhaps even "superhuman," though of course the person is all too human.

The problem with the current methods available for treating autoimmune diseases such as vasculitis is that one has to try to strike a balance between the aspects of the medication that suppress the destructive elements of the disease and the destructive aspects of the medication itself. One could use the analogy of chemotherapy (CT) for cancer. The CT kills the cancerous cells but also destroys healthy cells. Thus the physician must try to strike a balance between killing the cancerous cells without killing the patient. I hope that analogy makes sense.

So here comes Irina in her second year of skating while undergoing the "tricky" drug therapies that both suppress the autoimmune response that attacks her blood vessels and suppress her immune system, making her more vulnerable to bacterial and viral infections. The longer she's on this treatment, the more difficult it becomes to control the negative aspects of the therapy with the positive ones. Someone with vasculitis at this stage, especially an elite athlete, would be most vulnerable to infections under prolonged periods of excessive stress--such as preparing for the Olympics.

So for me, it does not surprise me at all that Irina started the season skating like gangbusters because her disease was under control and she could use her full strength and endurance, but that as time went on and she skated in more competitions, meaning increased physical stress, and the Olympic games neared, meaning increase physical and mental stress, that she would start to weaken and become more susceptible to infections.

For Irina, trying to train and compete with vasculitis in preparation for the Olympics is a matter of using what medicine has to offer in terms of medications to control the disease while not doing too much for too long so that she peaks before the Olympics and avoid being on the downside of her condition curve when the Ladies competition begins. It's the knowledge of physicians, the right doses of medication such as prednisone, and a big dose of just plain luck that Irina would need in order to be in peak form for the Olympics. IMO, Irina is in the unfortunate position of having to not only skate on ice, but also on a tightrope in terms of her health. She could feel well at the right time during the Olympics, her vasculitis could flare right before the Ladies event, or the negative side effects of her medication could kick in and cause some kind of infection right before the Ladies event. That's what I mean by skating on a tightrope.

All this is just speculation on my part, but it is based on news reports, seeing the changes in Irina's skating over time, and, as I said before, my knowledge and understanding of vasculitis and autoimmune diseases in general. Anyway, that's my possible scenario as to how Irina could be skating so strong early in the season but then start to have problems with more competitions and the emotional stress as the Olympics near and the effects of the stres on her disease.

I've tried tp be as fair-minded and objective in this evaluation and possible scenario as possible, but I want to emphasize that it's just my opinion without ever having seen the "patient." If others feel Irina is taking some kind of performance enhancing drug, I'd have no factual knowledge to contradict them. I can only say that I know all the athletes must go through "doping" as soon as the event has finished, meaning giving a urine sample, which is immediately analyzed for any banned substances. If Irina or any skater was taking or had been taking anabolic steroids, ie, Arnold muscle building steriods, it would show up in their urine even if they hadn't taken any for a couple of weeks. Testing for banned substances is one thing the IOC does extremely well.

Whether you agree or disagree with all or some of what I've said, I hope it provides food for thought and might prompt debate, which I thought Red Dog did a great job in distinguishing it from brawling. Debate, great. Brawling, I'm bawling. (Barfing emoticon.)

Rgirl

Rgirl said:

Why Kwanford Wife, I'm all ferklempt! I had no idea you were trying to be more like Piel and me. Wanting to be more like Piel I understand; I've been trying to be more like Piel from the first post of hers I read! But more like me? God (or whatever higher power you believe in or nothing if you're an aetheist) forbid! The last thing this or any forum needs is another person writing obnoxiously long posts, is still a Howard Stern fan at age 50 (almost 50), watches "South Park" reruns instead of "My Fair Lady," and annoys the bejeezus out of only Higher Power knows how many normal GSers.


Just don't forget my :birthday: and all those expensive presents, especially cash. :agree:

Rgirl

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Too funny! I am trying to resist the temptation of brawling about Kwan, Irina or the deLugeal ladies team during this olympic cycle... its so sad to get banned ~ which has happened to me on occasion (of course, said site is no longer on line... teehee) ... but the world is full of negative people who do not know how to root for their favorite without belittling another skater & it drives me insane...

You, Piel, DG and Millie are great examples for the more emtional & type happy crowd here at GS... and your big, fat check for that 50th is in the mail!!! I have also included a bridge in the evenlope.

honestly to be completely objective, u have to remember that a medication may have a general side effect, but for some individuals things MAY react differently. to say something causes THIS AND ONLY THIS THE END PERIOD is unrealistic. so if we're to remember that this is not an anabolic steroid, we are also to remember that side effects listed are normally the general ones that a majority of ppl in studies have found, not exactly 100%.

The notion that Irina would need to take performance-enhancing steroids is silly, IMO. She's always been able to jump and skate like crazy. IMO, the weak part of her skating has been her artistry, and there's no drug that's going to help you with that. Not to mention the fact that female skaters want to look pretty and feminine and steroids are the last thing you'd take in that regard.

I don't know if this will answer anyone's question or change their opinion on Irina. I have been dog-sitting a Golden Lab who is on prednisone. Since he has been on prednisone, he's a stun as a bat (literally). Before predsisone, he was a smart dog , almost as smart as my Newfoundland Dog, but now he looks at me as if I got two heads and is very lazy. Not comparing Irina to the dog but if she feels and bad as the dog looks she is a super-woman to be skating like she do.

Go Irina. Let the games begin.

Peggy said:

Yes, it IS or at least it was for my MIL. As soon as she had a breathing treatment with this drug, we were amazing the difference in how energetic she got. I'm not saying everyone reacts to this drug the same way but I certainly think Irina has had her best skates since taking Prednisone, so I believe it does enhance her performance. I've personally seen what it did with my MIL so I know what it can do to give a person energy.

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Peggy I know exactly what you are referring to regarding your MIL. This is not the same thing as performance enhancing anabolic steroids. In cases like your MIL's you have a patient who make be in outright respiratory distress or so exhausted from lack of oxygen that they cannot function at their normal activities of daily living. The patient receives prednisone either orally, injected, or inhaled and it is amazing at how much better they can function. Not just their normal ADL's but they can exercise, garden, shop, dance...Is their performance enhanced? Yes, they are performing better than before receiving the drug. Now they are actually performing at what would be their normalcapacity if they were not ill. With anabolic steroids performance is enhanced to a capacity greater than that for a healthy normally functioning individual. Prednisone reduces inflammation so that cells can function normally therefore increasing energy to the person's normal level (though for someone who has been ill this seems to be much more than that). Anabolic steroids enhance performance by building bigger muscles than the person would normally have.

After this initial phase of prednisone therapy the side effects of the drug begin, bloating, joint pain, yadda, yadda, yadda.