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Thread: Protocols - Men's SP

  1. #1
    Hopeless fan Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Protocols - Men's SP

    http://www.nbcolympics.com/results/1501423/detail.html

    I love that the judges protocols are going up after each segment of the event rather than after the entire Oly's is over!

    While Plush's big lead is being questioned, that lead is mainly comprised of a large lead in TES, and only a slight lead (just under 1 point ahead of Johnny) in PCS. In the judges eyes, (and I don't disagree) he was the only skater who skated clean. (no negative GOE and/or no missed elements)

    I'm assuming Lambiel's 2A was a miss of a 3A - same for Min.

    I also assume Johnny's L1 spin must have been planned for something higher than a L1.

    So - bottom line is that I think all of the guys but Plush left points on the table.

    Of course I still retain hope that in the future, we will see more variance in PCS scores to better reflect reward (or not) for choreography and interpretation especially. But all things being as they are, I'm OK with Plushy's lead after looking at the protocols.

    Other opinions?

    DG

  2. #2
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    DG - a 2A is legitimate in the SP. It is a choice. I suspect Stephane did it deliberately thinking his quad would bring his score up anyway. Min probably just realized he will not make the 3 turns and cut it short. Better for the legitimate points of a 2A than none for a 3A.

    I doubt there will be a refining of the PCS scores. It's all so much about personal taste. For example I would deduct heavily on Evgeni's non existent sitsspins for which he get level 4.

    Also, like the 6.0 presentation marks, PCS scores are wide open for pushing favorites ahead. While they gave Johnny high PCS, some judges managed to keep Evgeni in the running there despite his usual shtick of being so cautious before he jumps. Lyrical skaters do not sell to the audience, they are too involved in the music. Johnny is definitely lyrical. He brings the house down only after he finishes his routine - not during as the bravado skaters do and expect.

    It's all a matter of taste and favoritism and as TT said it is open for cheating. Unless we know the names of the judges and which country they represent we will just continue to speculate. On the other hand, there are fans who believe in the full faith of the judges even if there are wide discrepancies between them.

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    DG - a 2A is legitimate in the SP. It is a choice. I suspect Stephane did it deliberately thinking his quad would bring his score up anyway. Min probably just realized he will not make the 3 turns and cut it short. Better for the legitimate points of a 2A than none for a 3A.

    Joe
    Judging by the look of his face after he skated I don't think he had planned a 2axel..he didn't seem too happy.. also he did prepare quite long for the axel and had it first in his program, so I do believe he was going for a 3axel...

  4. #4
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    I don't understand how Brian Joubert could get -1 for his tripple flip?! I mean duuh, his flip really is huge and perfect. How the hell did one judge give him -1 when some others were giving him +1 or +2?

  5. #5
    Hopeless fan Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engwaciriel
    Judging by the look of his face after he skated I don't think he had planned a 2axel..he didn't seem too happy.. also he did prepare quite long for the axel and had it first in his program, so I do believe he was going for a 3axel...
    I agree.

    Joe, while I have opinions (as we have hashed through many times) about COP that where I think the system is less than perfect, I DO like to have some faith that it's not just a complete cespool out there of lyin' cheatin' judges. If I had no faith in the judging at all, I could not enjoy figure skating as a sport. Any judged sport will inherently involve personal preferences and tastes on the part of the judges. To me, that's just normal - not cheating.

    Of course I'm already on record that I agree with you about anonymous judging. And of course I abhor the fact that judges caught cheating in the past are still judging. I hope someday the ISU cleans all that up.

    How can one judge give a -1 GOE on a jump, and another a +2? Maybe they are just lyin' and cheatin'. Or maybe one judge from their angle, thought they caught a 2-foot landing or something, and another judge didn't see it that way.

    A good example just from a TV viewer standpoint ocurred during the event yesterday. While I didn't have any live video feed, people in Europe, Canada and some other places did have live coverage. There was some debate during the event about whether or not Johnny might have 2 footed the landing on his flip. Different camera angles, different perspectives.

    For now, I'm keeping my slightly tainted rose colored glasses on.

    DG

  6. #6
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    My observations on teh protocols

    Here's my observations on teh protocols...i posted them on another site too so apologies to anyone who's seeing them twice!

    1. The judges are still giving a ridiculous spread on the GOE, how can
    one judge give Joubert's solo triple flip -1 when three gave him +2 and
    the rest (bar a couple) gave him +1. The spread is what i don't get,
    also it might be me but i didn't see any footwork going into his triple
    flip so i'm minded to agree with the -1 judge but still that's a spread
    of 4 grades between the judges.


    2. I don't recall Weir having troubles with his solo triple flip,
    maybe it was a toe-y on the landing and he was tad slow with the free
    leg but otherwise the jump was great and had intricate footwork right
    in the mohawk entrance to the jump, three judges gav him -2, five
    judges gave him -1, three have him 0, and one gave him +1...again the
    sprad is unnacceptable, but that triple flip compared to the hand down
    on the quad and whipped double toe combination taht joubert did which
    just got -1s across the board. To me no matter how heavy the landing
    was on weir's triple flip, or how slow he was with the free leg, those
    mnior errors are nothing compared to hand down on a jump.


    3. Pluschenko's 4/3 got much higher GOEs than Sandhu's which i disagree
    with (especially the judge that gave sandhu -1 for it).


    4. Lysacek was given the benefit of the doubt on his triple axel and
    it was called as such, with the severe lean, the landing had his toe
    jab in about spot on a quarter short so i think it got called the
    correct way but i think he may have received "world medalist" benefit
    of the doubt and i would have thought a lesser known skater might ahve
    been dinged...or if his name was shizuka arakawa or miki ando it
    wouldhave been downgraded!

    Ant

  7. #7
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    DG - a 2A is legitimate in the SP. It is a choice. I suspect Stephane did it deliberately thinking his quad would bring his score up anyway. Min probably just realized he will not make the 3 turns and cut it short. Better for the legitimate points of a 2A than none for a 3A.
    In ther interview with Gwendal Peizerat after his skate Stephane said it was a mistake, i think he said it didn't feel right giong in, he mistimed it and he opened up too early.

    Ant

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